D&D General Back-Learning to 3.5e

[haakon1]

I prefer 3e to 5e but 3e will require more house rules than 5e for most players (that aren't trying to emulate a prior edition).

Things will generally work pretty well if you stick to the core books up to 6th-8th level, but after that you'll increasingly run into difficult balance challenges.

Agree. I run Core Rules only by default, with players requesting specific rules from other sources if they want.

 

[Weiley31]

I would probably suggest to house rule that instead of using 3.5's normal skill list/skill rules, you just improvise/import over the rules for skills/cross class skills from pathfinder 1st edition.

I find going that route makes skills LESS ANNOYING in 3.5 and ensures your character won't be useless at tying their shoes......or rolling over....or even trying to do anything productive really outside of Yugi-oh style multiclassing combo names.

The Fighter is a bit more....useless compared to the Fighter in 5E. So, replacing it with the Warblade from Tome of Battle would be better. Or heck, go whole hog and replace it with the Pathfinder 1st edition Fighter. Probably do the same thing with the Monk as well.

 

[Voadam]

A few additions

22 There are more skills, 5e perception is 3e spot and listen skills. 5e stealth is 3e hide in shadows skill and 3e move silent skill. 3e has a language skill so you can learn languages each level. Some are named differently like 5e persuasion being 3.5 diplomacy. There are specific craft and profession skills that would generally be proficiencies or backgrounds in 5e.

23 class imbalance is a bit wider. Rogues, monks, bards, fighters, rangers, and paladins are all a bit more behind the curve compared to 5e, particularly at higher levels. Resource management models and powers can vary widely between classes.

24 There are a lot of options and supplements beyond core, both WotC and a ton of OGL. Quality and tone varies significantly. Psionics, PH 2, Tome of Blades, Warlock and Hexblade. A large number of fantastic monster books, modules, and campaign settings on the DM side.

25 Warlocks and Dragonborn and Drow are not core PH options.

26 Skills have more defined uses with specified DCs for a lot of things that are vague and up to the DM in 5e.

27 Gold is a lot more important and integrated as part of player power. Magic items have specific prices and can be crafted and often bought.

28 Spellcasters can use feats to be able to craft magic items for half their normal price using gold and xp. This can put them a level behind the rest of the party at points but also give a lot of extra power they control.

29 Monsters have full stats like PCs and can have full PC class levels. This can make them fairly complex with a lot of moving parts that are not always obvious on first glance or in use at the table, particularly with feats and spells and monster spell like abilities if you are not instantly familiar with them.

30 Grapple is fairly complex, and can be a much more powerful maneuver for shutting down an opponent in 3e compared to 5e. It is easier to build specialized characters and monsters around special maneuvers like grappling, disarming, tripping, and such.

 

[Salmakia]

I would probably suggest to house rule that instead of using 3.5's normal skill list/skill rules, you just improvise/import over the rules for skills/cross class skills from pathfinder 1st edition.

I find going that route makes skills LESS ANNOYING in 3.5 and ensures your character won't be useless at tying their shoes......or rolling over....or even trying to do anything productive really outside of Yugi-oh style multiclassing combo names.

That's a good point. I am definitely interested in the "more specific skills" aspect of 3.5e/Pathfinder. I feel like they tried to add some of that into 5e with the various tool/kit proficiencies in Xanathar's but it doesn't have quite the same integration & I've rarely seen anyone actually use them. I'd love to have a character that can really specialize in extraplanar knowledge or forgery or whatever. But yeah still would love the characters to be useful/interesting to play outside of their specialties.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Just a few hints:

Don't fall into the trap of ever raising AC and Skill DCs.
The skill DCs that work in 5e also work in 3.5. Cross class skills should be the benchmark for DCs.
You should make use of take 10 and most importantly take 20 rules whenever possible.
A rogue opening a lock with DC 25? No problem, as long as they are not under time pressure. Searching a room? Take 20! This also makes sure that it takes a realistic anount of time.

AC should usually be a tiny bit higher.
The wizard BAB bonus should be your benchmark (at most). The fighter should have an easy time hitting with his first attack and even his second.
I think this idea is easier to accept going back from 5e than going up from 2e, where any hit on you was potentially deadly.

 

[Salmakia]

The skill DCs that work in 5e also work in 3.5. Cross class skills should be the benchmark for DCs.

I'm confused - I don't think I have enough 3.5 knowledge to understand what you mean by this.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I'm confused - I don't think I have enough 3.5 knowledge to understand what you mean by this.

Skill DCs work as in 5e. Easy = 10, medium = 15 and so on.

You can put level+3 skill points into a skill. If it is on your list, this + stat bonus + d20 is your total.
If it is cross class, you only have d20 + stat + half the anount of points you put in.
Back then, it was normal for DMs to lool at class skills deciding what DC is appropriate, when they should have looked at cross class skills.

This made everything that is not helped by magic prone to failure and made non magical characters comparably bad.

Or put it in 5e terms: just treat class skills as you would treat skills woth expertise and cross class skills as just normal proficiency.

This way, it is way more fun for the rogue and the fighter.

 

[Voadam]

I'm confused - I don't think I have enough 3.5 knowledge to understand what you mean by this.

3e Classes have skills on their class skill lists that can be taken 1/1 with levels. Skills not on the list cost one skill point for every half skill rank and cap at half the level of the cap for class skills.

A DM assigning a skill DC has flexibility in a number of situations despite the more in-depth guidelines of 3e compared to 5e. Some look at the expected max rank for a character of the appropriate archetypal type so a rogue detecting a trap when setting such a DC. Others suggest setting DCs so that most everybody has some sort of a reasonable shot even if they are not a skill expert in the area.

Skill DCs can easily range from 5 to 30 with characters' skill check bonuses at 20th level easily ranging from -3 to +30. Where you discretionally set DCs impacts both experts and non-experts.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

3e Classes have skills on their class skill lists that can be taken 1/1 with levels. Skills not on the list cost one skill point for every half skill rank and cap at half the level of the cap for class skills.

A DM assigning a skill DC has flexibility in a number of situations despite the more in-depth guidelines of 3e compared to 5e. Some look at the expected max rank for a character of the appropriate archetypal type so a rogue detecting a trap when setting such a DC. Others suggest setting DCs so that most everybody has some sort of a reasonable shot even if they are not a skill expert in the area.

Skill DCs can easily range from 5 to 30 with characters' skill check bonuses at 20th level easily ranging from -3 to +30. Where you discretionally set DCs impacts both experts and non-experts.

Thanks. I hope you explained it better than I did.

Skill DCs between 10 and 25 usually work well for levels 1 to 15. At level 1, at level 1, usual DCs are 15, while at epic tier (level 10 to 15), usual DCs around 20 work well.

This way, skill based characters feel useful at all stages of the game.

If you set DCs too high, you quench creativity too much, because non magical characters soon feel that risk vs reward is heavily skewed against them.

 

[billd91]

Pathfinder 1e is a really good improvement on 3.5. It simplifies some issues with skills and cross-class skills, improves a number of classes. Plus, all of its rule additions are available for free at d20PFSRD.

But if you prefer PDFs, Paizo has all of the rulebooks for sale. They‘re quite convenient if you run from a tablet or laptop.