back to 3e... feeling funny (aka 4e to 3e)

[Jack99]

Thanks. It does sound as if we have the same opinion on combats and how we perceive them. It also sounds as if your speed in 3.x matches my experiences with 4e. 20-60 minutes for a normal combat, 2-3 hours for the truly epic combats that bring everyone to and a bit over the edge. Those are my numbers for the high-level game, anyway.

Regarding the "was", it was just from my point of view, since I do not play 3.x anymore. Nothing else.

Cheers

 

[Herremann the Wise]

Thanks. It does sound as if we have the same opinion on combats and how we perceive them. It also sounds as if your speed in 3.x matches my experiences with 4e. 20-60 minutes for a normal combat, 2-3 hours for the truly epic combats that bring everyone to and a bit over the edge. Those are my numbers for the high-level game, anyway.

Our groups experiences (we are playing both editions currently) is that a 4e encounter lasts as long as a mid level 3e encounter (with a lower level 3e encounter taking less and a higher level encounter being all over the place in terms of time but generally more).

However, we have found that there is less player downtime in 4e which makes a 4e encounter "feel" quicker. Although about half the time, you get the grind effect which makes an encounter drag on "feeling" slower. As such, 4e combat feels different to 3e combat but in terms of our group, encounter duration is roughly the same as is the overall feel of the duration. The outlier to this is the odd 3E encounter which dissolves into a mess due to consistently tricky rulings and changed mathematics (antimagic field with a high level group bursting with magical items is NOT fun).

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[BryonD]

Thanks. It does sound as if we have the same opinion on combats and how we perceive them. It also sounds as if your speed in 3.x matches my experiences with 4e. 20-60 minutes for a normal combat, 2-3 hours for the truly epic combats that bring everyone to and a bit over the edge. Those are my numbers for the high-level game, anyway.

Ok, again, I have no comment with regard to 4E and none is intended. But, I don't feel that 3E feels slow and I know some people talk about constant book references and such. I think that type thing would be a detraction, but my point is that is far from automatic. And many games run much more smoothly ("quickly") than that.

I don't doubt 4E works out the same when run properly. And regardless, I'll certainly trust your assessment and have no basis to dispute it.

Regarding the "was", it was just from my point of view, since I do not play 3.x anymore. Nothing else.

I know that. I'm just playing back at you.

 

[thecasualoblivion]

To me, 3E feels slow because I ran 2E for years and 3E is slower than 2E to a massive extent. By that standard, I find 4E to be slow as well, but 4E combat has more interesting bits and redeeming qualities than 3E IMO. I even ran a 2E game last year and found that my memory was indeed correct and 2E blows 3E and 4E away in terms of speed.

As for the original topic, I am a 4E convert, and at this point I find 3.5E painful. I approve of the changes made by 4E for the most part, and 3E seems clunky in comparison. I was dragged into beginning a new 3E game last year, and I didn't enjoy character creation or the few sessions I played. I listen to people talking about their characters, and people ask me for advice on what they should do(I was the resident optimization master), and it just reinforces that I'm happier where I am now. It also reinforces that if I decide to take a break from 4E, it will be with 1E/2E AD&D.

 

[Starbuck_II]

Character Creation is its own category when discussing slowness for each edition.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I listen to people talking about their characters, and people ask me for advice on what they should do(I was the resident optimization master), and it just reinforces that I'm happier where I am now.

See I do see myself as happier at 4e then 3e, but some how I do find the power plays that I miss in 4e makeing 3e a little diffrent atleast...

For instance when i cast tash's uncontrolable laugh, and the guy missed the save, he was out for the fight...even sleep in 4e has a 'save ends'.

And my control undead lasting 6 or 7 days is amazaing compaired to '5min or end of encounter'....but then again even our optimized psi warrior is no where near as good as our unoptimized wizard/mindbender...