Back to basics

[palleomortis]

So, recently I let all 2 of my players go wild, and make whatever they could think of as PCs. mind you, we have a weird group, so we did come up with some weird things, despite the seemingly non-existant restrictions I applied. We have a half-dragon-gnoll, and a ... big barbarian...thing. However, as fun as it is, I find that the adventures are almost TOO easy, and that the PCs don't actually take advantage of their benifits. I put a simply base Elf/Ranger (I think, might have been sorc.) in the game and found out that their ECL was way above what they play. The Elf guy I put in could basically wipe them out, and was a good several levels BELOW their ECL. How can I put it to them to try some base classes in a way that will sound as fun as I expect it to be? (As they would most likely find themselves a LOT more powerful if they stuck to base classes/races rather than wreacking havick on they're character level simply to aquire perks they don't use.)

 

[Ruslanchik]

Why not just say, "This week we're starting something new: Core Only*!"

I honestly think the game is better when played like this, with special exceptions made for certain feats or spells from splatbooks.

*Core only her means PHB races, not anything you can find in the MM.

 

[palleomortis]

I'd kinda like to, and kinda like to think that I COULD, but I tend to need an excuse. Considering there are only three of us, and I"m the only one "Capable" to DM (I suck, proud of it ), I seem to feel responsibly to have a group desicion rather than an inforcement by the DM. I have a feeling it may come to doing that though . As warped as it sounds, I'd LIKE to kinda, um, "persuade" them to do it, thinking that THEY want it almost more than I do. Hm, weird how that works out. Do you think it would be best to simply do that, or should I continue to try to get them to investigate it? (I do have some time to work my way to it, we're still finishing a storyline with the characters we have)

 

[Ruslanchik]

Then just tell them, "Look, your characters would be stronger if you did something a little more straight-forward. Wanna try it once?" Offer them a one-off campaign (maybe a short prepared adventure) to show them how fun it can be.

That or send them links to Character Opimization threads that talk about Druids or Wizards and show just how powerful they can be.

 

[palleomortis]

Alright, worth a shot, shouldn't bee TOO hard, my diplomacy check is WAY past theirs. Thanx.

 

[Griffith Dragonlake]

Take no prisoners, give no quarter.

My advice is to “take no prisoners and give no quarter.” In other words, play it straight by the rules. If the party deserves an EL 4 encounter then give them the EL 4 encounter and run it fairly. If the players don't run their characters properly, that's their problem not yours. Maybe they prefer to continually generate new weird 1st level characters as they continue to get killed off. I suspect that eventually they'll figure out how to run their characters more effectively or they will start optimizing.

My experience with 3.x is that multiclassing and LA +1 or greater characters are sub-optimal compared to single-classed LA +0 characters. Even WotC admitted that their playtesting consisted of mostly single-classed characters. That's why we have the mystic theurge because a cleric/wizard is highly sub-optimal in 3x without that prestige class (unlike all previous editions of D&D).

Kill them. Kill them all. Do it again. And again. Don't cheat but don't pull any punches either.

 

[Wik]

Run a one-shot. Plan it for two, maybe three sessions, with the caveat that at the end, the game's over.

Centre it around something. I like "you're both knights in a human knightly order. Your goal is to slay the Dragon. Humans and Half-Elves only. The only classes allowed are Fighter, Barbarian, Cleric, Bard, Paladin, and Wizard."

Or something like that. Offer up enough choice that they can make interesting characters, but not so much that you get these weird combos. The fact that it's a one-shot will prompt them to work within the barriers you've suggested.

When the game's over, you can implement some of those rules (such as limited selections) into your next CharGen session - since they have experience with how a straight-classed human fighter can be just as interesting (and a lot more powerful) than that half-dragon/gnoll.

 

[Digital M@]

ELC penalties of monster classes often result in weak characters. Once you lose HP, Skills, Saves etc for 2-3 levels, you fall behind the power curve, especially in low and mid levels. You can just lower the challenge level you toss at them and go from there. If you find they are 1 CR lower than adjust your game. It should be pretty easy after a session or two.

 

[Herobizkit]

Two words: Gestalt rules.

Have your players play "normal" races but give the the juicy goodness of multi-classing two classes... at the same time! Since there's only two of them, this concept won't break your game, and it will saturate their characters with lots of abilities without having to be wacky ECL races.

'Course, IMC, I don't enforce ECL penalties, but I do consider the ECL of the characters when I decide what challenges they can face... mwahaha.

 

[Li Shenron]

Two words: Gestalt rules.

Have your players play "normal" races but give the the juicy goodness of multi-classing two classes... at the same time!

Considering that he has the problem of players not being able to take advantage of their current benefits, this idea will only make things worse.