Back to the Dungeon

[WhatGravitas]

Dungeons... Hmmm.... I like them, done right, they exude mystery and wonder - but if that's done at the expense of other parts, I don't like it.

One of the best 3E adventures was Red Hand of Doom, and while it features dungeons, it wasn't overwhelming you with them - it was a nice balance.

Dungeons are a great additions for many adventures, but they never can be there for their own sake, they need to be more than "go through them to the endboss" and need to have a vital place in the story of an adventure - then they're good.

This said, I think 4E should have some dungeon-bias, but should also be able to do other encounters equally well, meaning adventures should feature dungeons, but the mechanics should be place-neutral (though the flavour can be dungeony).

Cheers, LT.

 

[Jhaelen]

A good dungeon has discreet areas, multiple entrances and exits, "unimportant" levels, empty rooms, interesting puzzles. Moreover, a good dungeon requires the players to think strategically about resources -- everything from time to rations to hit point to spells -- and force them to make aformentioned informed decisions.

Why does it have to be a dungeon, though? What is the definition of a dungeon, anyway?
If you replaced 'dungeon' with, say, 'encounter area', I'd be inclined to agree. I disagree that you need a dungeon for any of these 'good' properties of an adventure.

 

[Klaus]

Well, if I'm playing a character with an actual Good alignment, I need a reason to go into a dungeon and kill stuff other than "there's money there."

And that's where the player must chime in. The DM puts together an adventure, and the players provide the reason why their characters are going. The DM shouldn't have to convince the player to let his PC adventure.

DM: The gloom of the cavern entrance bespeak of ancient, dark times.
PC1 (a rogue): I'll go in, because there's money to be made.
PC2 (a wizard): I'll go in, because ancient ruins often hide arcane secrets.
PC3 (a cleric): I'll go in, to spread the glory of my god.
PC4 (a paladin): I'll go in, to make sure nothing down there can threaten those villages nearby.
DM: Okay, so give me a marching order.

 

[Melan]

Which translates to:
"I will go in, because I enjoy adventuring in dungeons."


In the end, motivation comes from the players, and the rest is justification.

 

[MerricB]

QFT. It's funny how lots of people complain (rightly) about railroading, but don't complain about linear dungeons. The underworld doesn't have to be a maze (it can be, but that's a separate topic), but it should probably not be a straight line. That strips it of much of its otherworldlyness.

From the complaints about Barrow of the Forgotten King, which does have a straight line, I'd guess that people do complain about them.

Cheers!