Backgrounds/Themes? Which do you use?

Trit One-Ear

Explorer
Title pretty much covers it. Up to this point my characters have been allowed one background, as a little aid to flesh out their characters. Have you played with Themes? How do you feel about them? Do you suggest using both, or one over the other?

Trit
 

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I use both. But themes have more impact b/c of their mechanical effects (backgrounds are fairly minor). Since I run a Dark Sun campaign, not using/allowing Dark Sun themes would lose some flavor IMO. The only concern I'd keep in mind is power creep (especially the newer themes). Personally, I just adjust the adventure to keep things challenging.
 

When we started my campaign, the only backgrounds were those in the Scars of War (I think that's what it was called) adventure path. Themes did start coming out until they hit paragon, and by that point I didn't feel that they were really ncessary.

So, basically I let them each choose one of the SoW backgrounds, but based on its name and description alone - I didn't let them read the rules text. It gave them nice little perks (and a little hook to add a bit of backstory to their characters), but nothing truly necessary to their characters - for example, the PC that has "Noble Scion" would still be a foppish noble, but for his "brother" the paladin who took "Jailhouse Convert" I don't know if he would have worked a bit of bad-boy history in without that as inspiration.

If I were to run a different campaign, I'm not sure I would allow themes - they don't really seem necessary to having a developed character and instead seem like a source of PC imbalance, given that IMHO they are of greatly varying power levels. Additionally, they add a level of complexity for little benefit. They simply don't fill a void that I felt was (or indeed still feel is) there. If the majority of players wanted to take them I would let the party do so, but I personally don't think they add much to the game.
 

I've always allowed backgrounds as a way to give characters more flavor.

I've only used themes in my ZEITGEIST campaign so far, where they tie the characters to the world. They're awesome for that!

Generic themes feel more like power creep to me, but I know that they're widely beloved and popular in a lot of circles.
 

What first drew me to Themes was starting Scales of War with some casual friends. After playing higher level characters, we all felt bored and limited with only 1 Encounter, 1 Daily and two at wills. One extra encounter power at level one is exciting, but I do see balance issues arising. Just thought I'd ask since I'm starting a new campaign tonight (in 4 hours!)

Trit
 

What first drew me to Themes was starting Scales of War with some casual friends. After playing higher level characters, we all felt bored and limited with only 1 Encounter, 1 Daily and two at wills. One extra encounter power at level one is exciting, but I do see balance issues arising. Just thought I'd ask since I'm starting a new campaign tonight (in 4 hours!)

Trit
I certainly understand being bored with the 4 1st level attack powers. That said, I'd rather give everyone extra class powers or start them at higher level than give themes. As I understand it, themes have a wide range of quality. I don't allow backgrounds either.

IME, this stuff is just more ways to optimize. Players who involve themselves in the campaign world and think about their characters do so regardless of themes and backgrounds, and players who don't...well, they just don't.
 

I use both, but only because LFR constitutes most of my 4E play experience, and I feel both...

a) an obligation to not let my table down
b) a desire not to overwhelmed by the other players at those tables.

I think I would like themes more had they been part of 4E from the start. In fact, I would probably like them more than bacckgrounds. As is, they stink of power creep (or maybe secret playtesting for 5E).
 

We use both.

My group started using backgrounds when they came out, and at the time, they seemed like a relatvely minor addition. Again, at the time, they were. Just some basic skill-benefits; a plus two or having a skill on your class list that otherwise wouldn't be is not a big deal. This was, of course, before the Forgotten Realms backgrounds came on the scene.

My group started using themes when I launched my most recent campaign (nearly a year ago now). We chose not to introduce these new elements in the middle of the previously running game, as it would have been a lot to absorb all at once (we were 9th or 10th level by that point).

Being as it's much easier to introduce new things like this after a hiatus, we will probably end up retroactively applying themes to all our campaigns eventually. Themes feel, to me, like the missing element of character creation. They fill the niche that Kits took up in 2e - interesting ways to differentiate your character mechanically and, ahem, thematically.

The power creep is another story though. As others have pointed out, themes are very hit-and-miss as far as mechanics go, and some have abilities that can really break the game in the wrong hands. Optimizers simply use them as another element to min/max. I'm not even worried about the extra power at first level - most of those aren't too bad - it's the skill bonuses that tempt me to ban things.

There are too many overly generous bonuses to skills, most of which could be solved by making them not stack with anything. In the case of both background- and theme-based skill bonuses, most of the issue can easily be eliminated by making them feat bonuses. The problem arises when you take a background that grants a nice juicy +3 to a skill that lines up with your prime stat (some of them even give training too!) then combine it with a theme that gives a +4. Stack an item bonus and a feat bonus and you're into the low +20 range by Paragon. That's insane. I had a fellow player that cranked his skill up so high with this that he could routinely make checks (and I mean routinely) that were 10 levels higher on the revised DC chart. Ten levels. A FULL TIER. That's ridiculous.

Bonus points if that skill is, say, Arcana (it was), and you then take a bunch of Cantrips, Skill Powers, and Utilities that allow you to substitute it in place of other skills (and there are a lot of those), and congratulations, you've just made every other character (even the focused skill-monkeys) irrelevant at their best skills. That's shades of 3rd edition right there. Extra credit for taking something that allows you to reroll Arcana if you fail or don't like the result.

Now, granted, most of those are encounter powers, but you often only need to roll once on a given skill in a given encounter. When you have abilities, all of them separate encounter powers, that allow you to substitute one skill for another, suddenly, you are a one-PC skill challenge crushing machine.

It's like the skill challenge equivalent to Expertise - while the bonuses are nice in that they theoretically allow you to branch out in ways that would be subpar for your character otherwise, and give you the bonuses to make it worthwhile - in reality, they serve only to widen the gap between optimizers and everyone else. I like having an effective character as much as the next player, and have nothing against optimizing in general, but this is an issue with themes and backgrounds that really needs to be fixed.
 


We're currently playing in a Dark Sun campaign, so we used (Dark Sun) themes right from the start - and they're great!

Before that, in our 4e Eberron campaign, we often used multiple backgrounds as a starting point for a believable, rich character. The Eberron backgrounds are some of the best in that regard: Most of them provide excellent story hooks.

We haven't used any of the more recent themes yet, but from what I've seen they're not as interesting as the Dark Sun ones because they don't offer any attack powers.
The DS themes are a powerful multi-classing mechanism in addition to providing more flavour and background.

E.g. I'm playing an evil Dragonborn Dragon Magic Sorcerer who is a Templar of Dregoth and an Embedded Spy (Tyr Background) trying to find out more about Kalak's demise in the hope of discovering something that will help me to bring about the death of the other sorcerer kings to pave the way for Dregoth's glorious return as the sole ruler of the entire Tyr region.

This character is really incredible: It's a striker with a secondary controller role that can serve as a defender in a pinch, granting leader-style boons to the rest of the party.

Before the introduction of themes such a versatile character would have been all but impossible to create.
 

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