[Bad Axe Games] Products on the horizon?

[Insight]

Maybe I am being dense, but what do you mean by "skill-based system"? Will this product have a different mechanic than the magic system described in GT?

My guess (and this is only a guess) is that the 'skill-based' spellcasting system is a more freeform system that uses d20 rolls to create and cast spells. I created a similar system where basically you take ranks in each of the schools as skills (so you would have ranks in Abjuration, ranks in Illusion, ranks in Necromancy, etc), and spellcasting would be resolved with a skill check (DC 15 + spell level or something to that effect). When you want to create your own spell on the fly, the GM determines which skill it uses, what level it would be, etc, and off you go!

Just to throw in a request -- it would be nice if GT had a "taint" mechanic of some kind. Casting spells can cause spellcasters to: a) lose their sanity, b) become diseased, c) whisked away to be tortured in Hell, d) whatever devious effect you can dream up. It just occurs to me that in most pulp settings there are reasons why heroes don't cast spells or don't cast certain spells, or don't cast them often.

You need to be careful not to make the spells too dangerous to cast or none of your players will waste time with them. There needs to be a decent risk-reward mechanic in place. So if you're going to make spellcasting more dangerous and not do anything to make it better in some other fashion, your players will just avoid it like the plague.

 

[Insight]

One of my design goals is to further break up the Spellcasting system so it is even more plug and play.

So I have defined a set of common terms used across all chapters that are then interchangeable.

<snip> ...

So (Insight... you listening?) I haven't created any kind of new mechanic that would require rewriting or adjudicating the spells themselves-- such as a "case by case" sanity loss or cost for spells, as in Call of Cthulhu d20.

Me listening! Ok so if I understand what you're saying, these would all be optional rules (makes sense since this is a supplement) that are designed to be usable in all systems. Since Grim Tales is designed to be a rule sourcebook usable with different settings/optional rules/etc, anything in the Spellcasting book should be compatible with the D&D SRD, Cthulhu d20, D20 Modern, etc, without too much work. In fact, if someone is using another system with extra rules (such as sanity loss or even the GT spell burn rules), they would need to bolt on the extra rules rather than try to figure out how to resolve two different options. New options in the GT: Spellcasting book would have to be generic enough to allow for a lot of different systems.

 

[Yuan-Ti]

My guess (and this is only a guess) is that the 'skill-based' spellcasting system is a more freeform system that uses d20 rolls to create and cast spells. I created a similar system where basically you take ranks in each of the schools as skills (so you would have ranks in Abjuration, ranks in Illusion, ranks in Necromancy, etc), and spellcasting would be resolved with a skill check (DC 15 + spell level or something to that effect). When you want to create your own spell on the fly, the GM determines which skill it uses, what level it would be, etc, and off you go!

Yeah, but this isn't the method described in GT, so I am wondering if Wulf is proposing a new system or if the supplement is just new things to snap onto what is already there.

You need to be careful not to make the spells too dangerous to cast or none of your players will waste time with them. There needs to be a decent risk-reward mechanic in place. So if you're going to make spellcasting more dangerous and not do anything to make it better in some other fashion, your players will just avoid it like the plague.

I am thinking of this as an official "option" Wulf could design for us. But, in essence, I agree. I would probably make it easier (but not certain at all) to succeed in spell casting, but that certain spells would have a tain associated with them. If this taints builds up over time (and there would be a save), it can cause problems for characters. I don't think this breaks the game or will lead too many players to avoid casting spells. Have you ever played CoC?

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Ok so if I understand what you're saying, these would all be optional rules (makes sense since this is a supplement) that are designed to be usable in all systems.

What Grim Tales did for d20 in general, the Spellcasting book will do for Spellcasting mechanics.

Pick one, pick some, mix and match, get the system you want.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Yeah, but this isn't the method described in GT, so I am wondering if Wulf is proposing a new system or if the supplement is just new things to snap onto what is already there.

Think of it this way.

The system that ended up in GT was just one of my ideas for "fixing" spellcasting.

The Spellcasting book will show you all of my ideas.

 

[Old One]

<SNIP>

1 point of spell burn could mean 1 point of ability damage (as in GT).

1 point of spell burn could mean you spend 1 point of spell energy (if you wanted to use a spell point or spell slot system).

1 point of spell burn could mean 1d6 of non-lethal damage.

1 point of spell burn could be 1 point of "sanity" loss.

1 point of spell burn could mean you must make a Fort save (DC15 + spell burn) or you are fatigued.

Spell burn isn't the only concept treated in this way, but it's the most prominent. "Caster level" also gets its turn at bat. For example, caster level is defined in a couple of different ways in the skill-based spellcasting chapter (caster level = 1/2 skill ranks, for example, or caster level = amount by which you beat the DC, as another).

<SNIP>

Not to be argumentative-- especially since I have read BC and didn't care for the system-- but game mechanics are Open Content by default. It would be impossible to build a "skill based system," built, as it obviously is, on the d20 skill system, which is Open Content, without that system also becoming Open Content. OGC is viral-- touch it, and your Content is open.

Wulf

Interesting commentary...looking forward to see what ultimately comes of this.

As a quick aside, what element(s) turns you off about the BCCS casting system? I like it a lot, but don't necessarily have your keen "tool-kit" eye for deconstruction/reconstruction.

~ Old One

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

As a quick aside, what element(s) turns you off about the BCCS casting system? I like it a lot, but don't necessarily have your keen "tool-kit" eye for deconstruction/reconstruction.

I don't have it in front of me, so I'm speaking from hazy memory.

If I recall, it was just too intertwined with the setting itself-- from the escalation of DCs (to levels that exceeded normal d20 limits), to the mix of spell templates to choose from.

I do realize, that's a strength of the system as it applies to BCCS-- just not from a designer's viewpoint. I found very little material there that I would use, and what was there that I liked, I'd already developed on my own.


Wulf

 

[Yuan-Ti]

Thanks for the responses, Wulf! I'll definitely be picking this up.

And kudos for being such a responsive developer!

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

Not that I'm unfond of the BCCS system, but I think I'm finding for myself alot of the things Wulf sees in the BCCS system.

It worked out pretty well for the game I'm using it in, but I don't think it would work for, oddly enough, a Black Company game that was true to the books. It's got a fundamental bug in it that I can't quite put my finger on it. I think they tried too hard to scale it from 1st - 50th level and those insane spiraling DCs keep casters from being over-powered but also keep them from being able to be WIZARDS like in the books. It's very hard to mimic that, I think, but I think their mistake was in making so many effects so amazingly high in DC to cast, as well as trying to figure out making magical items. I think, in the end, it felt really shoehorned. Which, man, I wouldn't want to work on a licensed ip.

Right now I'm playing with a system I worked out similar to GT and Blue Rose. Actually have it all written up with various levels of Grimness a la Grim Tales. Was going to post it to the boards a while back, but I keep tinkering with it, and now I wouldn't want to step on Wulf's toes with his grimoire coming out.

--fje

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Right now I'm playing with a system I worked out similar to GT and Blue Rose. Actually have it all written up with various levels of Grimness a la Grim Tales. Was going to post it to the boards a while back, but I keep tinkering with it, and now I wouldn't want to step on Wulf's toes with his grimoire coming out.

Nah, go ahead.

I still have my day job, it's not like you're taking money out of my kids' mouths or anything.

Anyway, I don't have any kids. That I know of! [/rimshot]

Unless you want me to see if I can fold it in...? I'm not familiar with Blue Rose's system.