Bad DM'ing night

[VirgilCaine]

Unfortunately this didn't give the PC any real chance of escape (my bad... he could not beat the escape DC) though I thought he would just be able to hold out until morning and might be saved in the nick of time by his comrades. Unfortunately some of his antics got him smacked with a mace before the orcs left him... so his HP were down and, needless to say, he did not make it through till morning

So, although I think the group's actions were a little reckless, I'm kinda annoyed with myself for putting the PC in a situation that meant certain death (it's what was planned for the original prisoners - but not very good D&D from a player's point of view). Things had not gone how I expected (death of the original prisoners/capture of the bard)... so I just carried on with the BBEG's agenda when I probably should have thought a little quicker on my feet and done something to make this into an interesting encounter rather than a death sentence.

A) You can take 20 on Escape Artist, IIRC.

B) WTF were they going to do to the orcs?
It's not like they're like my wizard player, who spends money on scrolls of higher level spells (Cloudkill, fr'ex) when he's 5th level. These guys deserved it.

 

[FCWesel]

I think you handled things fine. At least they still have the option of Raise Dead, right? Maybe they can "Hero Up" and actually act the part of the heroes and get their friend's corpse and raise him, since they couldn't do that to save him in the first place.

 

[Pbartender]

Here's where it got messy. He was beaten unconscious and then gagged and bound. I used the crucifixion rules from BoVD and had the PC hung on the cross (after midnight) in a place that would be visible to the 'good guys' the next morning (to demoralise the enemy - from the orc's point of view).

Unfortunately this didn't give the PC any real chance of escape (my bad... he could not beat the escape DC) though I thought he would just be able to hold out until morning and might be saved in the nick of time by his comrades. Unfortunately some of his antics got him smacked with a mace before the orcs left him... so his HP were down and, needless to say, he did not make it through till morning

Huh.

You really need to watch Conan the Barbarian again...

"That is strength, boy! That is power! What is steel compared to the hand that wields it? Look at the strength in your body, the desire in your heart, I gave you this! Such a waste. Contemplate this on the tree of woe... Crucify him!"

Unfortunately this didn't give Conan any real chance of escape (too bad... he could not beat the escape DC) though you'd think he would just be able to hold out until morning and might be saved in the nick of time by his comrades. Unfortunately, some of his antics got him smacked around before Thulsa Doom left him... so his HP were down and, needless to say, he did not make it through till morning.

 

[Darklone]

• one of the guys was spending the day getting a new animal companion and the rest of the guys carried on without him.
• One other guy stayed behind with a group of soldiers gathered at a ford (where they all hoped to defend against a oncoming orc legion)
• while the other two guys (lvl 7) went off to harass the aforementioned horde (of at least 100 orcs and a possible giant).
• No stealth involved... just ride down the road to meet them in their camp :S
• Bard and wizard on 1 horse, not trained for combat

Print that out, show it to the players, and ask how they thought that was a good idea.

Made me think about the bard... and bluff.

Nearly 20 years ago now in one of my first D&D games, we were in a similar situation... horribly outnumbered and the cavalry coming for rescue still days away.

Then our paladin saddled his horse and rode into the middle of the orc camp, opened his visor and said to the orc leader: "I'm giving you one chance to surrender, atone for your crimes and ask for mercy which will be granted if you forsake your evil ways. In two hours we will attack your horde and Count XXX will come to our aid (don't recall the name, he was the famous military genius coming to our aid with his cavalry). Any non-human remaining here that is carrying weapons will get killed."

The DM gulped. The orc general gulped. Then the orc shaman gulped and yelled: "Paladins don't lie!?! We'll all die!". The orc general struck him down.

Minutes later half of the orc camp has fled or was fighting among themselves.

The paladin rode back and went straight to the temple asking for atonement...

 

[Kris]

OK maybe I was a little hasty in condemning myself as being a bad DM that night... I guess player comments kinda got me thinking about other ways that I could have resolved things, etc. etc. etc.

Reading all the above comments, and given that I've now had time to think about things... I'm thinking that it wasn't such a bad session after all. Maybe I could have been a little less severe... but maybe that's what the game needed to emphasise that PC's are not invulnerable... and that the bad guys are... well... bad.


In answer to some of the questions/remarks:

Yes - back at the ford (a bottleneck?) there are approximately 20 spearmen, 20 archers, and 10 cavalry (and a bunch of able-bodied halfling refugees willing to fight).

The world is also not your typical 'kill the bad guys, take their stuff, head back to town to get dead party members raised and buy that shiny +3 sword you always wanted' kinda thing... and having a character brought back from the dead is not really available (unless the characters themselves are able to do it... or they do stumble upon the one person/thing able to do it ).

And the crucifixion rules (in the BoVD) gives an escape DC of 28 if the executioner makes his 'profession executioner' check. Even taking 20 the player could not make the roll

I guess these last two things might leave a bad taste in your mouth - though the first should not be much of an issue as the game has been going for quite some time with that fact out in the open.


Again, in the party's defence, an illusion was also cast which lured away the 'giant' for a while (though it's only been described as a giant so far by fleeing halflings), and a wall of fire was put between the PC's and the main host. The whole 'capture' thing came about when the bard cast a 'suggestion' spell upon a large (CR6) wolf-like creature who had rapidly closed on them and was causing the damage (50ft move... a run action and a charge got it there in 2 rounds)... suggesting that he be taken alive. The rest is history as they say.


So thanks everyone for the comments - it's much appreciated (and made me feel a little better about the situation). Cheers!

 

[TheAuldGrump]

I tend to agonize over PC deaths when I am DMing, and under those circumstances I would not feel one agon of guilt. The bard died as a result of the other players making bad choices.

The Auld Grump, who has done similar things to PCs in the past.

 

[Boondoggle]

suggesting that he be taken alive

So he suggested the wolf take him alive, rather than, say, be satisfied with the horse, or break off chase completely... So the bard made more than a few bad decisions. First, was the whole 'harass the orc horde for amusement' thing. Then there's the poor choice for suggestion. And lets not forget his choice to not put any ranks in a skill that tends to be one of those life-saving ones when it's needed.

 

[Odhanan]

Put me down for another vote for bad player choices not bad DM'ing.

Me too.

Riding to meet an army and "just throw in a few spells" is not a plan.

Letting your companion die in the hands of orcs is certainly not heroic.

It's true that maybe the whole crucifixion thing could have been avoided in favor of something the PC could have escaped somehow, but in all honesty, sometimes the world isn't fair. If events in the game were always fair, the PCs wouldn't have any reason to worry about their survival.

 

[Jolly Giant]

I certainly don't think you're a bad DM. The PCs acted like dorks, and the orcs acted like orcs. No wonder the bard got killed.

If anything, you have perhaps been a bit too soft on the players in the past, leading them to think they can get away with anything?

...the shaman/executioner guy was a spell caster himself... so the PC is likely to be gagged...

See, if I was the DM the bard wouldn't be gagged. I'd have the executioner smash his teeth in and cut out his tongue instead. Not because I'm a mean, sadistic bastard, but because orc leaders usually are.

 

[Raptor]

I agree with most of the others. You as the DM did everything right, the players should have thought this through a little more. I would have even docked the party XP for not even bothering trying to get their compatriot back.