BADD- evaluate my dragon DM'ing? (KotSQ, Glacier Season module SPOILERS)

[Plane Sailing]

Dr Midnight,

I'm quite curious about how you ran the "party jumped into a bag of holding and teleported out" bit. Notwithstanding the size issue that someone talked about, how did that actually play out in the game? How many rounds did it take to get each person into a sack? Did getting into a sack draw AoO?

Just very curious.

Cheers

 

[Dr Midnight]

So you ran a group of 16th level characters through this adventure and they had a rough time of it? I think the guy who started this thread has 11th level characters....

Yep. I'd planned long ago for this to be the module they take on when they finish RttToEE. They finished early, and were getting REALLY cocky, so I let them start this one. by the time they got into the harder stuff, the self-balancing experience would have brought them up to speed... but they did THIS.

Well, for one, you could have told them that for some reason, the teleport fails.

I try to play things by the book when possible, so that if the players come up with something clever that actually works, it works.

I'm quite curious about how you ran the "party jumped into a bag of holding and teleported out" bit. Notwithstanding the size issue that someone talked about, how did that actually play out in the game? How many rounds did it take to get each person into a sack? Did getting into a sack draw AoO?

I was so busy referencing dragon attacks and feats, trying to keep track of everything, that I really didn't give the bag of holding much thought. When they jumped in, it was so late (had to wrap it up) that I just let them do it and they teleported out as the dragon's breath bathed the area.

Ahh. I talked to the players last night, and they're thinking about what they're going to do to prepare with their "time off" back in town. They don't know that a gargantuan H-bomb with wings is headed straight for them.

One player mused "If I were DM'ing, I'd have the dragon come after us all, immediately... because he can scy to see where WE are, right?" he laughed and the others dismissed it.

I sat there with a poker face.

 

[Wolfspider]

I sat there with a poker face.

Tee hee!!!

 

[Wolfspider]

I was so busy referencing dragon attacks and feats, trying to keep track of everything, that I really didn't give the bag of holding much thought. When they jumped in, it was so late (had to wrap it up) that I just let them do it and they teleported out as the dragon's breath bathed the area.

In case they try this trick again when you have more time to think it through, I would tell them upfront that he went easy on them when they entered the bag and that next time they will provoke AoOs and it will take more time. Telling them this now will prevent much whining later on.

 

[MasterOfHeaven]

Dr Midnight: Kill them. Kill them all. Seriously, you should definitely pull no punches when you go after the PCs this time around, no matter how much they whine. When you have the Dragon attack their castle, it'd probably be best to use the Freezing Fog ability to make sure it's hard for them to attack it while it destroys the walls.

Also, as others on this thread have suggested, I really think it's a good idea to grab at least one or two PCs and take away their items, as well as interrogate them about why they attacked it and what they are doing in the area. It sounds like you've got the situation in hand, and I look forward to seeing what happens when you spring the attack on them.

 

[Jezrael]

In case they try this trick again when you have more time to think it through, I would tell them upfront that he went easy on them when they entered the bag and that next time they will provoke AoOs and it will take more time. Telling them this now will prevent much whining later on.

If they want you to stick to the rules so slavishly have them do the same.

 

[Zelda Themelin]

Remember that white dragons do not get access to clerical spells so no Heal for this beastie.

According to MM, this is untrue.

Read MM p. 62

"Spells: A dragon knows and casts arcane spells as a sorcerer of a level indicated in its variety description, gaining bonus spells from high Charisma score. Some dragons can also cast spells from the cleric list or cleric domains as arcane spells."

This particular dragon has it's spell list written of course, unless DM wanted to change it.

 

[Pielorinho]

If these PCs don't have another teleport spell handy, then it might be time for natural selection to strut its stuff.

OTOH, remember that scring an enemy doesn't tell you in which direction the enemy lies: it just gives you a picture of the location. If the dragon can't teleport, and if the dragon isn't familiar with the location, it'll have a hard time launching a counterstrike.

Having the dragon issue an ultimatum to a nearby kingdom is a good idea; I'm not convinced that having it kill its pets is a good idea. The dragon is smart enough to know that punishing its minions won't suddenly grant them the ability to prevent teleportation spells; all the punishment will do is weaken the minions.

In fact, the dragon could issue an ultimatum that looks like this:

Dear Mr. Good King:
I know you don't want to do this, but too bad. Deliver the adventurers Bob, Amy, and Frank to my doorstep, bound and gagged and stripped naked. Each sunset that they are not delivered, another village will be frozen that night.
Sucks to be you,
Dragon

The king might trick the PCs into an ambush in order to save his kingdom.

Finally, if the players are teleport-happy, be prepared for them to teleport back into the dragon's lair as soon as the dragon shows its scaly face hundreds of miles away. Much easier to loot the lair and kill the minions when the dragon is absent.

 

[Tiberius]

According to MM, this is untrue.

Read MM p. 62

"Spells: A dragon knows and casts arcane spells as a sorcerer of a level indicated in its variety description, gaining bonus spells from high Charisma score. Some dragons can also cast spells from the cleric list or cleric domains as arcane spells."

This particular dragon has it's spell list written of course, unless DM wanted to change it.

Not entirely accurate. Some dragon types are listed in the MM as being able to cast spells from the cleric list and the X, Y, and Z domains. On the chromatic side, blues and reds can do this, while I think the other 3 types are out of luck. Most of the metallics can do it, IIRC. White dragons can't, unfortunately.

While I'm talking about them, I feel the need to vent. It makes absolutely no sense to me that the metallic dragons are typically larger and more powerful than the corresponding chromatic. Does anyone have a good reason why there is not draconic balance, or is it simply a holdover from TSR's "evil must always be weaker and lose in the end" phase?

-Tiberius

 

[Bozo]

It takes an hour

to cast scry...Now the dragon may have had the false vision spell up to through off anyone scrying it (don't remember the spell name) but I can't see how it could cast scry that quick (feats aside) nor how the party punched through the SR in the first place...a good darkness spell also puts and end to scrying....

What I would have done...Dragon had three rounds before the party showed - right?......Haste/Moster summoning vii round 1...monster summoning vi/monster summoning v round 2...mass haste/teleport to a new location round iii..cast nondetection or false vision..how did the scry puch through the SR in the first place?

I'm sure the dragon had some other alies in his lair (ice mephits are fun) to assist the summoned creatures....

Just the way I would do it...