Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
AuraSeer said:
From the text of the Rope Trick spell:
"Note: It is hazardous to create an extradimensional space within an existing extradimensional space or to take an extradimensional space into an existing one."
-Hyp.
Bags of Holding as transportation devices...
- Thread starter SWAT
- Start date
From the text of the Rope Trick spell:
"Note: It is hazardous to create an extradimensional space within an existing extradimensional space or to take an extradimensional space into an existing one."
-Hyp.
DaveStebbins
First Post
Hypersmurf said:
Yup, that's exactly the quote I was thinking of when I read the message you quoted, but you beat me to it.
-Dave
uzagi_akimbo
First Post
Hmm, just btw, has anyone ever considered that you actually have to fit into a bag of holding - like, you have to be able to be inserted into said bag through its opening ? I can see that for some small characters or a very large bag, but for a normal human knight in full armour and with his equipment strapped on, no way. What normal bag has an opening large enough to fit around a grown human - that is more than app 2' circular diameter ? Make that 3' diameter for knights, burly dwarves or half-orcs , all of which tend to be brawny and therefore stockier. Even large agrocultural sacks (not really bags anyhow, but close) would be challenged with such a bulky "object"....
Besides basically everyone being stored on top of each other and things getting rather "tight" inside - which might cause some roleplaing fun, but should generally be a detracting factor.
Regarding the air supply - we always ruled that stuff inside a bag of holding was removed from this dimension and stored in stasis in extra-dimensional space. Which had its own characteristics - like being essentially timeless, which put characters into "suspended animation", and incidentally causes them to suffer from a spell of sickness and hangover after leaving the bag - which includes re-memorising spells, resting for new spells, getting over the nausea... etc.
This way, objects get stored there (and even stay fresh ), but noone with his senses intact would contemplate being "stored" in there unless the alternative was dire and really unpleasant.
Besides basically everyone being stored on top of each other and things getting rather "tight" inside - which might cause some roleplaing fun, but should generally be a detracting factor.
Regarding the air supply - we always ruled that stuff inside a bag of holding was removed from this dimension and stored in stasis in extra-dimensional space. Which had its own characteristics - like being essentially timeless, which put characters into "suspended animation", and incidentally causes them to suffer from a spell of sickness and hangover after leaving the bag - which includes re-memorising spells, resting for new spells, getting over the nausea... etc.
This way, objects get stored there (and even stay fresh ), but noone with his senses intact would contemplate being "stored" in there unless the alternative was dire and really unpleasant.
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Evilhalfling
Adventurer
We permently lost a PC and an NPC when they were placed in the bag in alternate shapes and allowed to sufficate- as per the rule on the bag -
Originally Posted by SRD
If living creatures are placed within the bag, they can survive for up to 10 minutes, after which time they suffocate. Retrieving a specific item from a bag of holding is a move action—unless the bag contains more than an ordinary backpack would hold, in which case retrieving a specific item is a full-round action
where they returned to orginal sizes, overloading the bag -
an ignoble death for the contients Grand Druid (at the time a insane, pidgeon with a +5 magic fanged beak, and bull Str)
Originally Posted by SRD
If living creatures are placed within the bag, they can survive for up to 10 minutes, after which time they suffocate. Retrieving a specific item from a bag of holding is a move action—unless the bag contains more than an ordinary backpack would hold, in which case retrieving a specific item is a full-round action
where they returned to orginal sizes, overloading the bag -
an ignoble death for the contients Grand Druid (at the time a insane, pidgeon with a +5 magic fanged beak, and bull Str)
knifespeaks
First Post
How exactly do they get out of the bag?
A bag of holding doesn't make things weightless - it merely weighs a fixed amount itself. There is a difference.
A bag of holding doesn't make things weightless - it merely weighs a fixed amount itself. There is a difference.
sad_genius
First Post
So assuming you were small enough to get in the bag, or made small enough, you could stay in there for the length of a spell that made you not have to breathe? Or a demon or somesuch non respiring monster could hang out in their forever?
It's a pity about the air thing, I always wanted to run a campaign set in this weird limbo dimension that turned out to be another characters bag of holding ....
M
It's a pity about the air thing, I always wanted to run a campaign set in this weird limbo dimension that turned out to be another characters bag of holding ....
M
jodyjohnson
Adventurer
Rope Trick - extradimensional
Mage's Magnificent Mansion - extradimensional
Bag of Holding - nondimensional (special clause for Portable Hole)
Efficient Quiver - nondimensional
Handy Haversack - like Bag of Holding (nondimensional?)
Portable Hole - refers to extradimensional when open, later calls it nondimensional space (special clause for Bag of Holding)
Resolution:
Bag of Holding vs. Portable Hole - special case
Nondimensional spaces are fine in Extradimensional space
Mizing Rope Trick and Magnificent Mansion is bad, opening a portable hole in either spell is bad - closed the hole acts as a nondimensional space and open it is extradimensional
My ruling is generally weighted in favor of campaign flow and to least punish players for having much needed nondimensional storage.
Mage's Magnificent Mansion - extradimensional
Bag of Holding - nondimensional (special clause for Portable Hole)
Efficient Quiver - nondimensional
Handy Haversack - like Bag of Holding (nondimensional?)
Portable Hole - refers to extradimensional when open, later calls it nondimensional space (special clause for Bag of Holding)
Resolution:
Bag of Holding vs. Portable Hole - special case
Nondimensional spaces are fine in Extradimensional space
Mizing Rope Trick and Magnificent Mansion is bad, opening a portable hole in either spell is bad - closed the hole acts as a nondimensional space and open it is extradimensional
My ruling is generally weighted in favor of campaign flow and to least punish players for having much needed nondimensional storage.
Herpes Cineplex
First Post
As far as I know, there isn't any official distinction in the RAW; just some sloppy phrasing by the authors, who namedrop "extradimensional" and "nondimensional" freely (and seemingly interchangeably) when discussing things like bags of holding and rope trick.Nail said:
That said, jodyjohnson's take on the whole putting-things-inside-other-things problem is basically identical to mine. It's simple, and it lets players actually use cool, fun things like Magnificent Mansion without making the game stall out and die while someone draws up a flowchart to figure out how to manage it without all those items of holding blowing up.
--
why anyone would want to make it more complicated than that is utterly beyond me
ryan
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coyote6
Adventurer
I think this trick was definitely viable in 3e, but I'm not sure it would actually work in 3.5e.
Teleport allows you to teleport "touched objects or other touched creatures"; the number & mass of objects is limited by your maximum load, and the number of creatures is limited by level. I don't think putting a creature in a bag (or a bag, or probably even a portable hole) turns that creature into an object, and if Creature-In-Bag is still a creature, then the limit on number of creatures still applies.
If Creature-In-Bag is an object -- well, that would open up some interesting situations, no? There'd be a number of spells they'd be immune to, and (IIRC) some spells they could then be targets of -- for example, shrink item on people, anyone? Plus, the people in the bag/hole/whatever wouldn't get saves; they'd have to rely on the saves of the item (if it wasn't being held or otherwise "attended") or the person holding the item (which would often be a wizard, rogue, or the like; could be tough if an enemy wizard zaps the bag with a disintegrate while some low Fort save type is holding it).
I once ruled (in 3e) that an archon could teleport with a bag of holding containing a person (in this case, a child); but I later decided that I was probably wrong.
Teleport allows you to teleport "touched objects or other touched creatures"; the number & mass of objects is limited by your maximum load, and the number of creatures is limited by level. I don't think putting a creature in a bag (or a bag, or probably even a portable hole) turns that creature into an object, and if Creature-In-Bag is still a creature, then the limit on number of creatures still applies.
If Creature-In-Bag is an object -- well, that would open up some interesting situations, no? There'd be a number of spells they'd be immune to, and (IIRC) some spells they could then be targets of -- for example, shrink item on people, anyone? Plus, the people in the bag/hole/whatever wouldn't get saves; they'd have to rely on the saves of the item (if it wasn't being held or otherwise "attended") or the person holding the item (which would often be a wizard, rogue, or the like; could be tough if an enemy wizard zaps the bag with a disintegrate while some low Fort save type is holding it).
I once ruled (in 3e) that an archon could teleport with a bag of holding containing a person (in this case, a child); but I later decided that I was probably wrong.
