Balance implications of Cheaper Multiclassing?

[FurryFighter]

Its probably due to wanting to keep cheese creations from being born. There's still lots of viability, and if you take tehe acolyte, adept, and novice, you can go further up the second class power ladder with no additional feat costs, which in itself would mean you could synergize some pretty blatently overpowered combinations.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Yeah, there are plenty of PS options that are really seriously nice. Fighter MC ranger and pick up Twin Strike? Can be very nice indeed. Even better for some other classes like rogue. If you have a nice class synergy and want to drop 2 or 3 PS feats then PMC actually isn't a bad deal. You've already paid most of the cost, why not get the big benefit? And lets not kid ourselves, the big benefit is the full use of the at-will. The PMC power swaps could be nice or not, but there are simply certain at-wills that when combined with other specific classes are VERY potent.

But of course, as you've already pointed out, the whole thing is pretty much just a nerf if you want to do it merely for concept purposes. At least if you go beyond the initial PS feat. Still, it is not all that big a deal to spend 2 feats in return for a skill, possibly a limited use class feature, and one power swap. Even though its only useful once per encounter, that is still a decent amount. The best at-wills like Dual Strike, Twin Strike, and Righteous Brand are really amazingly good powers. Most "concept" MCing is still going to pick one of these sorts of powers, or other ones that can definitely be almost as good in the right hands.

So yeah, if you make MCing cheaper, you just invite the creation of some pretty monster builds. Yet as it stands there are not a lot of cases where you want to go past the first power swap, if that. Still, that doesn't make it a failure. I really don't see how they could have done it better given the rest of the 4e design. Classes in 4e tend to get pretty wonky when you can mix them too freely. Just look at Versatile Master, its insane and pretty clearly broken.

 

[Dragongrief]

This topic made my brain start thinking up alternate ways it could work, since I agree with at least two of the concerns brought up:
- The initial feats are frontloaded (had fun making an "ultimate healer" using a bard and the basic MC feats)
- Some combinations can end up on the very high power side.

My thoughs were:
1) The base MC feat grants a feature benefit and the ability to swap an Encounter power.
2) No MC feat gives a free skill training, instead that training becomes a prerequisite.
3) The second feat allows the swaping of a Daily and Utility power.
4) The last (Paragon) feat allows swaping of an At-Will power.

So 3 (or 4 if the classes aren't synergistic) feats will allow you to swap one of each power type and the basic class feature bonus.
If you wanted to expand this, you could have another (specific) feature available for an additional feat.

 

[Marshall]

You're kidding, right?

The PMC at-will swap is mediocre at best. It should just be an addition instead if a swap.
PMC is never a part of a playable build, giving up the PP abilities for mildly synergistic below level power swaps just doesnt fly outside of one-trick-pony builds.

 

[keterys]

You can probably make most PMCs work if you give them actual paragon abilities.

For example:
11th: When you spend an AP, you recharge an encounter attack power of the multiclass.
11th: You gain one at-will attack power from the multiclass.
16th: Whenever you hit with an attack power from the multiclass, you gain a +1 bonus to your next attack roll with a power from your normal class made before the end of your next turn.

Add that to PMC and you're probably good enough to go for it to be workable for a lot of choices.

 

[aurance]

PMC is never a part of a playable build

That's a vast exaggeration.

 

[Marshall]

That's a vast exaggeration.

Nope.

You're always better off taking a PP from your MC than using PMC. Its weaker than the weakest PPs AND costs 3 weak feats.

 

[keterys]

It is possible to make playable PMC builds. Mostly just in cases where the at-will of the target class is amazing... twin strike and howling strike, for example.

Also a half-elf with the versatile feat PMCing can be interesting.

 

[Marshall]

Cant see it. Even the best at-will doesnt make up for the lack of path abilities and h-elf already gets the at-will without losing the PP.

 

[keterys]

Your failure to see it does not make it untrue. I personally wouldn't choose to PMC pretty much ever (more out of annoyance than anything), but it is possible to make playable builds with them. Particularly as a rogue going into ranger or fighter going into barbarian, to give two examples.