D&D 5E Balance issue

[LuisCarlos17f]

My suggestion is something like arcane maneuvers. Spell-like abilities but game mechanic lik martial maneuvers from "Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords". They are in the middle step between at-will and once-encounter power.

 

[neogod22]

I am playing around with replacing cantrips with another mechanic and wanted some opinions on if this was close to "balanced". In a nut shell, I want to swap the unlimited use of a cantrip for being able to situationally use a cantrip as a reaction. Something like this:



Replace

Thunderclap
LEVEL
Cantrip
CASTING TIME
1 Action
RANGE/AREA
5 ft

You create a burst of thunderous sound that can be heard up to 100 feet away. Each creature within range, other than you, must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or take 1d6 thunder damage.
The spell’s damage increases by 1d6 when you reach 5th level (2d6), 11th level (3d6), and 17th level (4d6).




With
Snow Leopard’s Growl
As a reaction, you create a thunderous growl that rattles the bones of your enemies. Each creature within 5’ of you must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or take 1d6 thunder damage.
The spell’s damage increases by 1d6 when you reach 5th level (2d6), 11th level (3d6), and 17th level (4d6).
Trigger: Two or more enemies surround you.
This ability can be used again after a short or long rest.


Other than change some flavor, I traded unlimited usage for the ability to use it as a reaction.

I don't have an issue with creating new spells for yohr campaign. I think for wizards, this should be encouraged. This doesn't seem like an overpowered ability and would be a cool signature spell for that character. But make it a new spell that the character created, not just a modified spell. If you're going to keep it a cantrip, I would limit it to 1 target only, and keep it as a normal cantrip and have it not scale in damage. Otherwise, make it a leveled spell, with the normal increase in damage per spell slot. Maybe start at 2d6 as a 1st level spell and an extra 1d6 for each additional level.

 

[neogod22]

In theory, as a reaction, it's competing with other things that could be used on a reaction like Shield or Absorb Elements if they have it from magical secrets and/or Opportunity attacks since they are a Barbarian/Bard multiclass. But yes, by targeting a lesser-used portion of the action economy it does provide a slight boost to effectiveness.

One point - Barbarians can't cast any spells while raging, so... not sure how much utility it will be unless your Barbarian/Bard doesn't rage much when they find themselves in melee?

They can't concentrate either. So if they have a spell up and enter rage, that spell is usually cancelled.

 

[Mistwell]

No not all, just some to create more options. It's not a game wide, sweeping changing, it's for one specific PC. I really want to make sure I am not making the PC better than it should be.

You're almost certainly making that PC worse, not better. You removed for example the push-back aspect of the cantrip, which is kinda important to thunderwave. You also restricted it to when TWO enemies are next you as a caster, which is rare, and then even further to once per short rest, which is even rarer. It's a pretty big nerf.

 

[Salthorae]

You're almost certainly making that PC worse, not better. You removed for example the push-back aspect of the cantrip, which is kinda important to thunderwave. You also restricted it to when TWO enemies are next you as a caster, which is rare, and then even further to once per short rest, which is even rarer. It's a pretty big nerf.

This was replacing Thunderclap, not Thunderwave.

There is no pushback component to Thunderclap... though that would be a fun addition to it actually

 

[Immoralkickass]

Don't reaction abilities always have a condition to trigger? Dont point out the Spore Druid UA to me, cos im just going to ignore that as a one-off thing.

 

[Salthorae]

Don't reaction abilities always have a condition to trigger? Dont point out the Spore Druid UA to me, cos im just going to ignore that as a one-off thing.

I think so, yes. OP put a trigger of "when you have two or more enemies adjacent to you." or something to that effect.

 

[DEFCON 1]

If this is for a barbarian/bard character, you don't need to worry about "unlimited use" of standard cantrips, because this character isn't going to be using cantrips nearly enough to give the impression that they are unlimited.

Just because it says "unlimited" on the box doesn't actually mean it actually appears that way in the narrative if they only get used once or twice per day. That's why at-will cantrips have never bothered me... because all my players use their spells way more often than repeated use of cantrips. If I ever felt like there was "too much" magic in my game world, it's because of the number of players at the table with full casting suites of spells and spell slots that are doing it... not because of the existence of cantrips.

 

[FrogReaver]

I read this and think it upgrades caster power. More done in a shorter timeframe.

of course this is provided the adventuring day is sufficiently short. 1 or 2 combats per day (pretty common IMO)

 

[NotAYakk]

The general rule of D&D optimization is "doing more things is better than doing fewer". This is also called the action economy.

The action economy is that you only have a few times per turn to impact the fight or narrative. To increase your impact, you can either make your impacts larger, or you can have more of them.

This cantrip is an example of having more impacts. Even if you do it once per short rest, the odds that you will (a) have a reaction to spare, and (b) have 2 or more enemies adjacent to you as a barbarian is high.

So per-short-rest, you get to shoot off a growl for nearly no cost other than knowing the cantrip.

In comparison, Thunderclap is competing with whatever else you can do with your action. Actions are high value resources, and a barbarian can "cast swing axe". Thunderclap will only start having a chance of being better than the alternative when you have 3+ enemies adjacent to you, and only start to shine when you are really, really piled on.

Growl is probably among the best 10% of attack cantrips in the game, and really top-notch on a "Gish". Thunderclap is closer to 50% on that scale.

I traded unlimited usage for the ability to use it as a reaction

Unlimited usage really means "using it whenever it is better than the next best alternative, for the difference in utility".

So you are giving up something of relatively low value for something of high value.

---

Cantrips are designed to do two things. First, relatively fun "ribbon" type abilities that casters can get. Second, an alternative to "attack with a weapon" that action martial characters do.

This is neither; it is and should be outside the design space of "Cantrip".