Balance of Races

[HalWhitewyrm]

Ok, is it me, or are the core races completely unbalanced in regards to each other? It doesn't make any sense.
How does it balance that a dwarf receives all those racial traits vs. a half-orc? I sincerely doubt that a half-orc's +2 to Str and 10 extra feet base movement compensate for the dwarf's various racial bonuses to this and that. Is there a component that I am just missing that makes it all balanced at the end?

 

[shilsen]

No, it's not you. Okay, maybe a little bit The core races aren't balanced perfectly with each other, and especially the pair you mention. Someone on these boards (Soldarin, I think) created a pretty good ECL calculator, and if you run the PHB races through it, it has the dwarf at +1 ECL and the half-orc at a negative ECL, IIRC. That being said, I don't think the discrepancy is large enough to seriously disbalance power levels between characters, especially when they have a few levels under their belts.

Going into House Rules territory here:

In my Greyhawk campaign, half-orcs get no negatives to Cha (dwarves get -2 to Dex, not Cha), get a +2 racial bonus to intimidate, and a +2 racial bonus to saves vs. poison and disease.

 

[Dremen]

I think you're right, but after a couple levels it isn't really relevent. House rules I have done much the same with 1/2 orcs.

Personally I don't see much of a problem. Most people will play what intrests them not what is most powrefull. Some will go the other way but if it is done well and they fit the group then who cares?

I run my elves more tolkien like. They are 'better' stat wise then humans, yet humans are the most numerous pc race in my games. No elf haters either, go figure.

-d

 

[Endur]

Dwarves and Half Orcs

While at first glance, Dwarves and Half Orcs doen't appear balanced, they are in fact pretty well balanced.

Let's take our two Icons, Tordek the dwarf fighter and Krusk the half-orc barbarian.

In a one on one comparison between the two, who wins?

(the following comparison includes rage)

Krusk moves 40' per turn. Tordek moves 20' per turn.

Krusk has +7 to hit with his greataxe and does 1d12 + 7 damage.

Tordek has +4 to hit with dwarf waraxe and does 1d10 + 3 damage.

Krusk has 16 hit points versus Tordek's 13 hit points.

Krusk is AC 12, Tordek is AC 17

Both have darkvision.

Krusk has more skill points.

Tordek has special dwarven abilities.

Conclusion: Krusk hits more often and does a lot more damage. Tordek has his special dwarven abilities and higher armor class.

In 3e combats, Strength is the most important statistic. Half-orcs, with a strength bonus and favored class barbarian, are most likely to be the strongest characters around.

Now having said that, I play a dwarf fighter because half orc barbarians tend to die young.

Tom

 

[Shard O'Glase]

I don't think the dwarf is particularly potent, but the 1/2 orc sucks. On average though the races are somewhat balanced. Humans are fairly potent, as are elves, gnomes, and 1/2lings. Humans the 1 bonus feat is cool, and so are the skill points. Elves, gnomes, and 1/2lings are more specialized, and as long as you play to their strenghts are really powerful. Dwarves gain a lot of benies, but very few of them help a specific class or character type.(the biggest bennie is the saves and darkvision) The darkvision rocks, but honeslty -10 movement is a big hit without the bonuses gained from being small.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

I do not see what is so terribly wrong with the Half-Orc. If you are playing a frontline grunt a Str bonus is more valuable than any other stat -- indeed almost twice as valuable.

The Dwarven movement penalty nothing to sneeze at. Moving too slowly can easily cost you your life at low to mid level play.

 

[ConcreteBuddha]

Bah! I think half-orcs are awesome. Like I care about Chr and Int...

Stonecutting? +1 to hit piddly little races? +4 dodge vs giants? Bleh.

I'd rather play a half-orc fighter than a dwarven fighter anyday.

 

[Destil]

My only problem with half orcs is they need some other bonus. They have no real special racial benifits aside from dark vision, just ther ability score adjustments. SinceI agree that the +Str, -Int, -Cha is balanced, they basicly come out as humans without the extra feat or skill points. I have a similar problem with half elves, though they have it a bit better.

My soultion:
Half elves get skillpoints as if Human.
Half orcs get a bonus feat at 1st level from the following list: Dirty Fighting, Endurance, Run, Great Fortitude, Iron Will, Mad Skillz(+2 bonuis to 2 related skills), Toughness or Apt (1 non exclusive skill is a class skill for all classes).

 

[baradtgnome]

completely unbalanced? perhaps that is strong language. given certain circumstances more powerful? surely.

Nothing is completely balanced in the game, so too the races favor certain circumstances.

If one class was clearly superior, and one race also, there would be more groups of just human clerics or something.

Sometimes it's fun to play the underdog, if you know what I mean. If you just want to max stats, then I can see your problem. Life for a RPG character just isn't fair! Oh, well I guess I'll just role play my way out of it.

I think if you worked at it, you could probably develop a world with a more balanced race scenario. Or borrow one from one of these talented contributors on the boards.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

My only problem with half orcs is they need some other bonus. They have no real special racial benifits aside from dark vision, just ther ability score adjustments. SinceI agree that the +Str, -Int, -Cha is balanced, they basicly come out as humans without the extra feat or skill points. I have a similar problem with half elves, though they have it a bit better.

I think that Darkvision is a very fair trade for the Human bonus feat. I can see your point about the skill points. One interesting suggesting I have seen is to allow characters with Orc Blood to pick up Scent as a feat. That can be fun and stylish.