Balanced Character vs Glass House

[Blackbrrd]

Having a 16vs 18 in a particular stat is the difference of +1 in modifier. It's only a 5% increase, but if it is your primary stat it does get used a lot more than a secondary stat. I've heard (but have no personal experience) that the Living campaigns tend to harsh and expect strong primary stats.

Actually its 5 percent points, not 5%.

If you usually hit 50% of the time, a +1 gives you 10% better chance to hit (it will now be 55%). Or, to say it another way: if you do 20 attacks and usually hit on 10 of them, a +1 will make you hit 10+10% = 11 times.

Since 4e is balanced around you hitting about 50% of the time, thinking of +1 to hit as a +10% damage bonus is quite accurate.

That +1 will also increase your damage by one (you do your primary stat to damage 90% of the time). For a cleric it will typically be 1d8+3 or 1d8+4 with 18 instead of 16.

1d8+3 * 50% = 3,75 dmg
1d8+4 * 55% = 4,675 dmg, or 24,67% more damage per hit.

Going from 16 to 18 in your main stat does a LOT!

 

[Plane Sailing]

I would think that the key issue is what kind of campaigns you play in - I don't know enough about living forgotten realms to comment in that respect, but if a game is basically just combat, combat, combat then being focussed makes some sense. It does also depend upon what other party members there are. For instance, if you are in a party with no leader, then having a more balanced defence and ability to heal yourself is a much bigger issue.

Cheers

 

[MatthewJHanson]

I'm surprised that so many people are having an experience different from my own. I play a dwarf cleric with a 16 Str / 17 Wis (rolled stats), whose mostly battle, but also some blast (righteous brand and sacred flame). I'm having a great time. I don't feel like I miss significantly more than most characters, and there have been enough times in game where melee wasn't a good option that I'm glad I have ranged attacks. I do have both a magic weapon and an implement, so that probably helps.

 

[Caliban]

I would think that the key issue is what kind of campaigns you play in - I don't know enough about living forgotten realms to comment in that respect, but if a game is basically just combat, combat, combat then being focussed makes some sense. It does also depend upon what other party members there are. For instance, if you are in a party with no leader, then having a more balanced defence and ability to heal yourself is a much bigger issue.

Cheers

LFR mods tend to be 3 combats with 1-2 skill challenges mixed in there (some authors try to mix it up, but that covers the majority of modules).

Being able to contribute in combat is most important, because most of a 4 hour module will be taken up by combat, but also being able to help in a skill challenge is also important (failing skill challenges generally results in lost healing surges, an additional combat, extra opponents in the next combat, losing treasure, or all of the above).

The main problem with LFR mods is that you don't always know what the rest of the party is going to be.

I've played mods where it was 4 strikers and my lvl 1 cleric (I made the cleric because I saw there were almost none signed up to play the mod) - things tended to die quickly and I had to scramble to keep them all up.

I've played a mod where there were 4 defenders and my wizard. Fortunately the defenders were good at working as a team and spread the damage around, and used their various utilities, items, and potions to stay concious.

I've also seen supposedly "balanced" tables with a mix of classes get TPK'd because no one in the party was build to dish out damage and couldn't outlast the bad guys.

Just make the best character you can, be good at your role and try to have a strong secondary aspect to your character. Try to play with people you know and trust.

 

[Caliban]

In contrast, I also have a human cleric of Amauntator. While technically a "battle cleric", her strength (16) is not much better than her wisdom, which is not much better than her charisma. It seems that she has a terrible time hitting things in melee, and even worse luck using her non-STR based powers. As a so-called balanced character, will she get any better at doing things (anything) as she progresses in level or will her incapacities only become more evident?

In general (and especially for LFR), I would recommend having your primary "attack attribute" be 18-20.

16 Str isn't too bad, but having your wisdom even lower is bad. The lack will become more evident as you get higher level.

You can make up for some of it by spending a feat to be proficient in a superior weapon that gives a +3 proficiency bonus (Bastard Sword, Full Blade, GreatSpear, etc.), and getting a +2 magic weapon as soon as possible (play Black Knight of Arabel or The Prospect).

You might be happier restarting the cleric though. (Tempus is might be the "best" battle cleric deity due to his Channel Divnity feat -Righteous Rage of Tempus. Channel Divinity as a minor action and if your next attack hits, it is an automatic critical. Combined with Healing Strike for 2[W] damage and a vicious weapon and you have done a lot of damage and healed one of your party members in one shot.)

You can have a cleric that has an 18 Str and 16 Wis (dragonborn, Human, warforged, or minotaur) or a 16 Str and 18 Wis (elf, dwarf, Human, and I can't remember the 3rd race with a Wis bonus).

Playing around with the Regional benefits can let you get away with some seemingly weak builds (Impiltur lets you tank your Con, and use Wisdome to calculate your base Hit points, Thay does the same thing with Intelligence)

 

[Nail]

I'm surprised that so many people are having an experience different from my own. I play a dwarf cleric with a 16 Str / 17 Wis (rolled stats), ...

Those are fine stats for a "rolled" build battle cleric. We're not saying (or at least I'm not saying) that "anything less than a 18 in your attack stat is pathetic and not worth playing".

But boy-howdy does an 18 help!

Given Point Buy, starting with 16s in Str and Wis is probably best (before racial mods) for a battle cleric.

 

[On Puget Sound]

Concerning specialization and skills, while most skills only require one party member to be good at them, there are a few things no teammate can do for you, like swimming, and in many cases the party's stealth equals that of the lowest member. If you have the opportunity to be good at Athletics, Endurance or Stealth you should consider it even if someone else in the group is already good at it.

 

[Starglim]

It's best to do one thing well (always providing the other roles are covered within your party) and to have reasonable defences. 4e assumes that your attacks, in particular, will be somewhat optimised to be able to take down monsters of your level.

But don't focus on stats to the exclusion of tactics and cooperation. It's also assumed that you probably can't meet all challenges without help from other party members.

 

[Paul Strack]

I think 4E encourages specialization. The game is all about teamwork, and team of specialists is going to do better than a group of generalists. A generalist in a group of specialists will be mediocre compared to everything else.

For ability scores, I aim to have 18 in a character's primary stat, and either a 16 or a pair of 14s in secondary stats. I think pushing for a 20 in your primary stat makes you skimp too much on other abilities, so I personally think that this is over-specialization.

 

[Caliban]

For ability scores, I aim to have 18 in a character's primary stat, and either a 16 or a pair of 14s in secondary stats. I think pushing for a 20 in your primary stat makes you skimp too much on other abilities, so I personally think that this is over-specialization.

In general this is true, but certain classes can afford to buy a 20 in one stat. Wizards, archer-Rangers, sword mages, and some cleric builds mainly.

That being said, I do play an elven wizard that started with a 16 Int and an 18 Wisdom (specific build, with Elven Accuracy to make up for the lower attack score on important spells), but my other two wizards both have a 20 Int.