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Balancing a d20 hit die

DrSkull

First Post
Okay, let me expalin why I set up my berserker as different from a barbarian. A berserker isn't meant to be a regular Viking warrior, but a rare, weird, semi-supernatural psycho-killer.

I used to play Chivalry and Sorcery using their Viking supplement. All of the warriors in Viking society in that game were allowed to go "ferocious", the equivalent of D&D's rage. So I established that the typical fighting-man in the D&D version would be the barbarian. The guards of chiefs and kings in C&S were able to do "power-attack" like things and had a generally higher level of combat skill and ability--so for D&D the Fighter class fit for them. All well and good.

But then there were Berserkers, you had to have favorable birth omens to be one (something I carried over to D&D), and they were really scary professional pyscopaths. Their berserking ability marked them as different than the regular "ferocious" warriors. In literature the numbers of these "true" berserkers was quite small (a king might have a dozen in his employ).

Several of the barbarian's abilites did not seem to fit, uncanny dodge for one (berserkers don't care about defense), all of the skill points for another. Berserkers killed for a living and did nothing else.

The rage of the berserker was a divine gift, a magical power, and in literature they were very hard to kill, it usually took magic or a magic weapon to do it. So, in order to model that I went for the huge hit die. I'm still not convinced that it doesn't work. After two sessions our berserker has survived only by the narrowest of margins (reaching -9 twice).

Perhaps it just seems freakier than it is. Perhaps I'll change it to a toughness feat for free on every odd level, that was a good suggestion and makes the class seem more in line with the others. I'm more concerned about the potential of a berserker using a lot of defensive magic, I should add a prohibition against that.
 

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mmadsen said:

Sounds like a simple tweak of the Barbarian class -- or a Figher allowed to take Rage as a Feat.

That's extreme. I think your real problem is that there's no d14, d16, or d18 between the d12 and d20. It's just too big a jump.

Learn how to read, Man! I got yer 16 siders right HERE!

:) I kid.;)

Had another idea, based off OLD D&D...

D12 hit dice, and if they roll less than their CON bonus, they get double their Con bonus instead. So a barbarian with a 20 CON could never get less than 10 HP's per level. Not as many possible with a D20, but a damn good guarentee, and similar to the average HP progression in the DMG.
 
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fuindordm

Adventurer
DrSkull said:
Okay, let me expalin why I set up my berserker as different from a barbarian. A berserker isn't meant to be a regular Viking warrior, but a rare, weird, semi-supernatural psycho-killer.

I know what you mean.. I've read those sagas as well. The barbarian make a good "heroic" berserker-type, but the berserkers of Viking history/literature were definitely anti-heroes.

I would still try to balance it off the Barbarian class. Strip off uncanny dodge, half the skill points, and the fast move. As bonuses:

Start the damage reduction at a much earlier level, say 4th, but continue it in its normal progression.

Fast healing? Some of the literature describes this sort of effect.

Fight to -9 HP while raging.

d12, but double HP bonus.

Additional limitations:

Must attack while raging, allow a Will save to come out of the rage and avoid attacking allies if no enemies remain.

NO armor proficiency whatsoever, though a shield is allowed.
Just some ideas for the pot...

---Ben
 

mmadsen

First Post
If you want a Berserker who's like the Barbarian, but with more Hit Points and less other defense, why not just replace each Uncanny Dodge (at levels 2, 5, 10, etc.) with Toughness? Or the next Rage quasi-feat he'd get. And replace the Fast Movement with Toughness.

Or let a Fighter take Rage as a Feat, and have him use his other Feats on Toughness.
 

Painfully

First Post
** doesn't this belong in house rules? **

Somebody wake up the moderators. I think they're in hibernation as prep for GenCon.
 

Zappo

Explorer
Oops, sorry for not following through. I thought it was pretty clear: I'm not suggesting that you should give Toughness for free every level, I was just noticing that making a class with a d20 hit die is the same (actually, even better) as making a class with a d12 hit die (which is already high) and giving it a free Toughness feat every level on top of that.

Granted, Toughness isn't exactly the best of feats, but it still seems weird.

Anyway, giving lots of HPs doesn't equal to making them very difficult to kill. Poison will kill them easily. A spell will kill or incapacitate just as easily.

Besides, if you wanted to simulate a warrior that has a supernatural rage power more potent than the barbarian's, to the point of resisting normal weapons - but that doesn't care about defense... you can take the barbarian, take away some skill points and uncanny dodge, and change rage so that it gives DR 5/+1 or even 10/+1, and maybe some SR too.
 

DrSkull

First Post
Thanks for the help. It's been good to hash this out away from the group where no one has a gored ox.

I've pretty much decided to go with d12 hit points, and Toughness on every odd numbered level. (I'll spare everyone the enitre laundry list of the class).

The d20 was tempting, but I reckon it's too much of a stretch.
 

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