Balancing E6

[joela]

E6 and IH

Has anyone looked at Iron Hero and its Feat Masteries? I'm considering purchasing the book and to incorporate its classes, feats, magic system (maybe) to add more "wi-fu" into my Eberron game.

 

[Kunimatyu]

Has anyone looked at Iron Hero and its Feat Masteries? I'm considering purchasing the book and to incorporate its classes, feats, magic system (maybe) to add more "wi-fu" into my Eberron game.

I'm using Traits in my E6 game, and if players are interested, I plan on converting mastery chains, using the rules in the back of the book for D&D conversion. I think mastery levels will only go up to 3, though.

 

[Zelc]

Sneak Attack!
I crunched some numbers for Rogues, because I was wondering if an SA-more or SA-anything ability would be broken, or if at least I should give them a SA replacement for immunes. I looked at TWF Weapon Finesse Rogues with Short Swords.

So, without SA, Rogues do about 30% damage of a Fighter. No, I don't mean 30% less damage, I mean 30% of the damage. So 70% less. Yup.

With 3d6 Sneak Attack, they do about 20% less damage, being more competitive vs. much lower ACs and much less competitive at higher ACs.

With 4d6 Sneak Attack ([Superlative] feat?), they do roughly comparable damage.

I've updated the Martial Balance spreadsheet. I'll definitely be giving Rogues/Ninjas/Scouts at least a SA anything feat of some sort, and maybe an ability that trades off SA for AC penalties.

 

[Elphilm]

With 4d6 Sneak Attack ([Superlative] feat?), they do roughly comparable damage.

This reminded me that in the Conan RPG the thief class has a few abilities that you could translate into feats for rogues and other Sneak Attack classes.

For example, thieves in Conan can inflict damage with eight-sided die instead of six-sided die when making a Sneak Attack with any one weapon of their choosing. The ability is called Sneak Attack Style. In addition, a feat called Light-Footed allows an unarmored and unencumbered thief to gain an extra +1 die to his sneak attack damage, a +1 dodge bonus to Armor Class and a +1 circumstance bonus to all Hide and Move Silently checks. Combine the two abilities and 6th-level thieves can dish out +4d8 extra damage with their Sneak Attacks!

Both abilities would be great feats for D&D rogues as well. I don't think they even have to be superlative or capstone feats.

 

[Imp]

damage balance

Would it be easier to come up with a nerf for THF than 20 different bonuses for everyone else just so they can keep up?

 

[Elphilm]

I'm thinking of shuffling a few sorcerer/wizard spells to lower level (for example, cone of cold) for my E6 games.

I noticed there's a cleric domain called Blackwater in the Stormwrack supplement that grants the cleric access to black tentacles at 3rd level. Now, I love the spell, and I wonder if it would be unbalancing to move black tentacles down a level, even if it is a potent spell. There are no sorcerers in my campaign (they are replaced by warlocks), so wizards would be the only characters that would have access to the spell.

 

[Kunimatyu]

I'm thinking of shuffling a few sorcerer/wizard spells to lower level (for example, cone of cold) for my E6 games.

I noticed there's a cleric domain called Blackwater in the Stormwrack supplement that grants the cleric access to black tentacles at 3rd level. Now, I love the spell, and I wonder if it would be unbalancing to move black tentacles down a level, even if it is a potent spell. There are no sorcerers in my campaign (they are replaced by warlocks), so wizards would be the only characters that would have access to the spell.

IMO, yes. At those levels, there is literally no better way to easily lock down and kill a large number of foes.

That being said, you're the DM for your game and can decide what's best, but that's one of the spells I was happy to see go away.

For a less-broken Evard's, take a look at Earthen/Stony Grasp from Complete Arcane.

 

[Elphilm]

Yeah, my gut feeling says that you're right. I'm aware of the Complete Arcane spells, and they're both balanced and useful. Of course, neither of them of them quite have the visual oomph of something like this.

It makes me wonder about the Blackwater domain, though. It would be interesting to know if anyone's allowed the domain in an E6 game.

 

[Creamsteak]

Since this thread is still going, I'd like to ask what anyone thinks of some classes I modified for E6. I'm going to attach it for formatting reasons. I'm already aware of a few concerns regarding them that I'm OK with, but I won't attempt to lead the conversation.

 

[Kunimatyu]

Now, now - you're the DM! Flavor is your business!

One thing you could do if you like the flavor and feel of Evard's is to reduce the spell from an area to a spell that only targets one creature of Large size or smaller. That probably wouldn't be unbalanced, and would get the flavor you're looking for.