Balancing Level Adjustments using Negative Levels?

[luke_twigger]

Some PC races have Level Adjustment (LA) e.g. Drow have a LA = +2, hence a Drow Fighter1 has an Effective Character Level (ECL) of 3. Normally such a character would be considered unbalanced to be played alongside e.g. Level1 humans. Hence to play one in a campaign might mean everybody starting at 3rd level which may be undesirable.

But what if the Drow began with 2 negative energy levels, which could be bought off in the future using XP. Obviously these negative energy levels shouldn't be removable any other way e.g. Restoration. Would that be balanced?

If so, it could open up a lot more exotic races to be playable from first level. Thoughts?

 

[PhoenixDarkDirk]

It should work.

I think I've actually seen that suggestion somewhere else.

 

[yipwyg]

I found this on Wizards site. It was released in 2004.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20040215a&page=2

It basically gives a -1 to a list of things equal to the level adjustment of the creature.

 

[smootrk]

Kinda hard to adventure with negative HP's.

Just joking, just have the character buy off the LA per UA - same difference as I see it, unless the negative levels have substantial penalties. But then again, those penalties might make a character unplayable. Already 1st level hp's, but with additional -1 to hit/LA, -1 damage/LA, or -minuses to saves, and possibly other things as well.

 

[yipwyg]

Here is the list that you get penalties on. This system as presented does not take away hit points. I would take the LA and the amount of HD the creature gets, add them up and that is the total penalty.

-1 on skill checks and ability checks.
-1 on attack rolls and saving throws.
-1 on level checks (including caster level checks).
-1 to the DC for any spell he casts or any other ability he uses that allows a saving throw.
-1 to any constant Armor Class bonus granted by race, such as a natural armor bonus or the svirfneblin's constant dodge bonus.
-1 to racial level adjustment (to make the character effectively 1st level).

Therefore a Lizardman would have the following

+1 LA + 2HD totalling 3 "negative levels" This comes out to

-3 on skill checks and ability checks.
-3 on attack rolls and saving throws.
-3 on level checks (including caster level checks).
-3 to the DC for any spell he casts or any other ability he uses that allows a saving throw.
-3 to any constant Armor Class bonus granted by race, such as a natural armor bonus or the svirfneblin's constant dodge bonus.
-3 to racial level adjustment (to make the character effectively 1st level).

He would have to gain 3 levels, 6,000 xp, to buy off all the negative levels at which point he would be equal to a 4th level character.

 

[luke_twigger]

Thanks for the WotC link from 2004, glad to see I'm only 2 years behind the times

 

[ruleslawyer]

One warning: Using negative levels gets really deadly really quickly for a single solitary reason: that -5 hp penalty. In my current Iron Heroes campaign, one of the PCs is a wood elf, for which I use a +1 LA (elves are rare and pretty uber IMC). He had a *very* scary time of it, and continues to lag far behind the other PCs in durability. It's especially a problem with races like drow (or my HR elves), who not only get no monster HD, but also incur a Constitution penalty. The thing is that I'm not sure that balancing LA with negative levels is going to be really fair if you leave out the hp penalty. I'd consider adding another penalty to compensate, but not subtracting the hp, if you're going to allow this.

 

[genshou]

One warning: Using negative levels gets really deadly really quickly for a single solitary reason: that -5 hp penalty.

There's no hp penalty in 3.0 for negative levels, and they worked just fine.