Balancing the Fighter: Determination

[Errant]

Note: I'm sure there are many who would argue that the Fighter class is just fine as is and I'd rather not turn this thread into a debate on that subject. I share my opinions only as background for the house rule. Constructive commentary on this house rule will be appreciated, but if you're convinced of the balance is fine I'm no more likely to change your opinion than you are to change mine.

After reading a thread recently on how higher level fighters seem to lag behing the other classes in upper level abilities I started to agree with the idea and wondered how it could be fixed. It seemed to me the crux of the matter is that the Fighter's primary strength, his versatility (which suffers if you take advantage of weapon specialization), pales in comparison to his limited skill points & poor saving throw progression. Deprive a high level fighter of his magical equipment and, lacking complete surprise, he's likely an easy target for most competant spell casters with or without their own equipment.

To compensate, hopefully without infringing too far into the strengths of other classes, I came up with the idea of a new class ability I'll call Determination (loosely inspired by the Rogue's Slippery Mind ability) as follows:

Determination - As a result of his training, experience and dedication Fighters can turn failure into success. By calling on pure grit, focus & determination a Fighter can reroll one Attack Roll, Saving Throw or Skill Check once per day per four class levels.

I'm still pondering whether a Determination re-roll would have to be declared before the outcome of the original roll is declared.

Too powerful? About right? What do you think?

 

[LordBOB]

actually it sounds pretty kool though i dont really know if you should declre that you are going to reroll for a save against something. If you say you are going to use this feat and you end up saving anyway, you would have to automatically reroll and you have a chance of killing yoursefl when you were fine in the first place. Im intersted in what others think as well.

HAVE A NICE DAY!!!!

1st post!!!!

 

[Ferrix]

With most reroll abilities, you get to roll whatever roll it is first, see the result of the roll (not the outcome of what the roll stands for) and decide to reroll or not. Rarely do you get to decide to reroll after you've learned the outcome, although it wouldn't really be game breaking.

Example:
Fighter needs to make a Fortitude save, his bonus is +11 (the DC is secretly 25).
The player rolls a d20, gets a 9, he decides that the foe he is fighting would probably force a higher save, so he decides to reroll, gets a 15, and succeeds.

Same fighter, DC is now 20.
The player rolls again, gets a 9, decides that he should reroll, gets a 15, and succeeds. Now he would have succeeded whether he rerolled or not, but he doesn't know that.

Same fighter, DC is again 20.
The player rolls again, gets a 9, decides that he should reroll, gets a 6, and fails. If he had kept his first roll, he would have succeeded, but he doesn't know that.

Same fighter, DC is now 30.
The player rolls, gets a 15, figures that's good enough and finds out he fails. He can't choose to reroll, since he has now discovered the outcome.

 

[Errant]

Thinking about it I'm inclined to let the player wait until he know's whether the initial roll succeeds or not before he has to declare (but not by how much).

i.e. Player makes his attack roll (skill check or save), DM declares it a hit or miss (success or failure), then Player decides to reroll. In some cases a Player may even choose to reroll even though its a hit, if he's got Improved Critical feat on a Keen Rapier for instance, just to see if he can get a critical etc. With results of some skill checks varying according to how much you succeed by you might choose to reroll a low "successful" roll as well.

I like this rule because its simple, versatile & while it doesn't mean a Fighter can consistently out perform other classes, his odds of pulling off difficult feats & withstanding magic improves despite his poor skills/saves. You can't rely on constantly performance, but you sometimes he'll dig deep and pull it off.

 

[Nifft]

If you're going to give the Fighter anything, give it to him at odd levels -- starting with 3rd.

I'd limit the rerolls quite a bit -- maybe to just attack rolls, crit confirm rolls and fort saves.

-- N

 

[Errant]

I pondered every four levels or every five levels for a while & decided making it every four levels. I felt that meant Fighters got the most benefit from the ability in the last half of a 20 level career, where they seem weakest. Its a gut judgement though.

I kept away from crit confirmation rolls because I felt that would make getting critical hits less dramatic & more contrived/controlled. Again thats just a gut judgement from watching player reactions at the game table.

The whole point of the ability is to reinforce what I think are the Fighter's weaknesses (poor skill points/selection & limited saving throws) without encroaching too far into other classes' strengths. Restricting the rerolls to combat rolls & Fort saves makes him a little better at what he's already good at without doing anything to help the areas he's weak.

 

[Sravoff]

I gotta say I like it. I'd give it to any d20 roll that doesn't confirm something else. No confirming crits, i don't know if there is anything else you can confirm on. Let them see the roll and decide to reroll or not, before success or failure. Good idea.

-Sravoff