Bar room brawl and Quickdraw

[JacktheRabbit]

Tonight our gaming session will start with a huge bar room brawl. Last weeks session ended with the PC's and local bar toughs facing off and it is only a matter of moments before a fist is thrown.

So I have a question. None of the party members have Improved Unarmed Strike. So if they punch someone who is wielding a weapon they will provoke an attack of opportunity on themself.

Now here is my question. What if the person in question has quickdraw? Would you allow them to free action draw their dagger an make their attack of opportunity? Or would you require that the character have the dagger already drawn before they were punched at?

It will not effect things much but it might be a small area that makes Quickdraw useful to have and might sow a little confusion and add some more fun to the brawl.

 

[kreynolds]

Now here is my question. What if the person in question has quickdraw? Would you allow them to free action draw their dagger an make their attack of opportunity? Or would you require that the character have the dagger already drawn before they were punched at?

The dagger would need to be drawn already. You don't threaten an area when unarmed. Unarmed combatants do not provoke attacks of opportunity from each other when making unarmed attacks against one another.

 

[RigaMortus]

You can only use Quickdraw on your turn. Actually, I think it's more that you can only take Free Actions on your turn. You make an AoO on someone elses turn.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

Re: Re: Bar room brawl and Quickdraw

The dagger would need to be drawn already. You don't threaten an area when unarmed. Unarmed combatants do not provoke attacks of opportunity from each other when making unarmed attacks against one another.

You do if you have improved unarmed strike.

Do you think making the ruling about the dagger would really unbalance things? It would only come up once or twice in an entire campaign but when it did it would actually make Quickdraw useful.

 

[Pielorinho]

Re: Re: Re: Bar room brawl and Quickdraw

You do if you have improved unarmed strike.

Do you think making the ruling about the dagger would really unbalance things? It would only come up once or twice in an entire campaign but when it did it would actually make Quickdraw useful.

In this case, it's probably all right. But do you want to set a precedent? A character might get annoying when he tends not to have a weapon drawn -- but then, when someone tries to grapple him, bull rush him, etc, seeing that he's unarmed, they discover that he can draw his greatsword awful fast and make an AoO against them.

Not a huge deal houserulewise, though, as long as everyone knows it's possible.

Daniel

 

[JacktheRabbit]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Bar room brawl and Quickdraw

In this case, it's probably all right. But do you want to set a precedent? A character might get annoying when he tends not to have a weapon drawn -- but then, when someone tries to grapple him, bull rush him, etc, seeing that he's unarmed, they discover that he can draw his greatsword awful fast and make an AoO against them.

Not a huge deal houserulewise, though, as long as everyone knows it's possible.

Daniel

The other option is the make a new feat that has a pre-req of Quickdraw that lets you draw a small weapon (or a medium sized finessable weapon).

It would be of limited usefulness but a sailor type might like it just for situations like this.

 

[Pielorinho]

New feat

Maybe you can make the feat worth taking:

Knife out of Nowhere
Prerequisites: Dex 15+, Quick Draw
Benefit: A PC with this feat may draw a light weapon in order to make an attack of opportunity, even if he would normally not receive an attack of opportunity due to being unarmed. The target of the attack of opportunity is denied her dexterity bonus against this single attack.
Normal: Characters may only draw a weapon during their own turn. Characters who do not threaten the space around them may not make attacks of opportunity.

I can imagine a rogue taking this feat: it allows for a few extra sneak attacks, as you stab someone in the belly with the knife that suddenly appeared in your hand. Still, it'll come up rarely enough that not every rogue will take it; on the whole, it's probably weak.

Daniel

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Re: Re: Bar room brawl and Quickdraw

You do if you have improved unarmed strike.

Right, but you said...

None of the party members have Improved Unarmed Strike.

...so it's irrelevant, which is why I didn't bother bringing it up.

Do you think making the ruling about the dagger would really unbalance things?

It isn't really a matter of balance for me. It's more a matter of "What's the point?". I don't think changing the rules would add anything to the moment to make it worthwhile.

Besides, it would certainly make a mess out of other situations. For example, "I remove one hand from my greatsword as a free action, draw my wand as a move-equivalent, activate it as a standard, drop the wand as a free, and move my hand back to my greatsword so that I can threaten an area again and continue to make attacks of opportunity". According to the Sage, you can't do that.

It would only come up once or twice in an entire campaign but when it did it would actually make Quickdraw useful.

Personally, I think Quickdraw is quite useful for a feat, especially with full attack actions using thrown weapons.

 

[Murrdox]

First of all, let me commend Pielorinho for coming up with a really neat flavor feat! I like this feat a LOT. It has just the feel of when someone tries to attack the seemingly unarmed rogue... suddenly they get a knife in their ribs. The addition of allowing a sneak attack is particularly nasty! I can't imagine it being the most USEFUL or often-used feat in the world, but it's definitely nifty.

Out of curiosity..

Besides, it would certainly make a mess out of other situations. For example, "I remove one hand from my greatsword as a free action, draw my wand as a move-equivalent, activate it as a standard, drop the wand as a free, and move my hand back to my greatsword so that I can threaten an area again and continue to make attacks of opportunity". According to the Sage, you can't do that.

Why isn't this allowed? This makes it seem like a wizard with a quarterstaff readied can't cast spells with material or somatic components... he has to take one hand off his quarterstaff (free action) grab the components from his pouch (free action) cast the spell (standard) and then put his hand back on his quarterstaff when he's done (free). Is this not allowed? Whenever ANY class that is holding a weapon with both hands casts a spell, we simply ASSUME this is done. You free a hand, cast the spell, then when you're done you grab your weapon again, ready to attack. Are we doing this wrong?

 

[kreynolds]

This makes it seem like a wizard with a quarterstaff readied can't cast spells with material or somatic components...

Not exactly. The ruling simply prevents someone from threatening an area while holding a two-handed weapon in only one hand. Basically, you have to choose how to hold the weapon, and the effects of doing so last until you're next round. I can't remember the exact wording, but the reply is from a recent Sage Advice column (possibly the latest issue). I don't think it has made it into the FAQ yet.

I could be remembering it wrong though.