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Barbarian is up!!!

It would seem to me then that the more elegant option would be to have Rages that aren't all Daily Attacks. They could be utilities, like the fighter Stances, possibly.

It just feels very sloppy to have an ability you can't use for 5 levels and that only exists to patch a problem that a weird design choice forced you to need to fix.

Today's my day to argue with you, KM. ;)

While I agree that the power needs a bit of rewording, I don't think it's functionally problematic. I have no problem whatsoever with a power existing that isn't useful at every level. I wouldn't want it to be the standard, but it's hardly an awful idea in the abstract. Just think of it as a bonus "power" you pick up at 5th level, but it couldn't be phrased that way because the classes in 4E use the same progression in terms of level-based abilities.

And I don't think making all "rages" daily powers is a "weird design choice" at all. It makes perfect sense, and I think it adds nice flavor to the class to have their signature ability and their daily abilities be the same thing.
 

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Gloombunny

First Post
I'm a bit concerned that the barbarian doesn't seem to do very much damage for a striker. The extra damage on the at-wills is no more than from Hunter's Quarry, and a barbarian who's not raging only gets it if he uses Howling Strike, which is just a basic attack with the extra damage. A ranger gets the same extra damage while Twin Striking! Even a raging barbarian doesn't get any more damage from his at-wills, he just gets to do the damage while using at-wills with side benefits. And it seems like barbarian encounters and dailies mostly do about the same [W]'s as ranger and rogue encounter and dailies (with the notable exception of Avalanche Strike), but the rangers and rogues get added damage on top of those too.

The barbarian closes the gap a bit by using a two-handed weapon, but he still seems to fall behind. Maybe the free attack when critting and the 1/encounter free attack after killing an enemy will help even things out over the course of the encounter. And the rage bonuses, though it'll be a number of levels before a barbarian can have those in every encounter, and getting them in every encounter means rationing out your dailies instead of saving them to nova on a boss.
 

ppaladin123

Adventurer
Today's my day to argue with you, KM. ;)

While I agree that the power needs a bit of rewording, I don't think it's functionally problematic. I have no problem whatsoever with a power existing that isn't useful at every level. I wouldn't want it to be the standard, but it's hardly an awful idea in the abstract. Just think of it as a bonus "power" you pick up at 5th level, but it couldn't be phrased that way because the classes in 4E use the same progression in terms of level-based abilities.

And I don't think making all "rages" daily powers is a "weird design choice" at all. It makes perfect sense, and I think it adds nice flavor to the class to have their signature ability and their daily abilities be the same thing.


As long as they are balanced in such a way that they don't need to be raging to be effective I am ok with this. Otherwise I could see barbarians going nova like 3e wizards and ending up being the limiting factor in the length of a party's adventuring day.
 

Rechan

Adventurer
But they don't get the HP that the barb does, they don't get the extra temp thing, and they don't do as much damage.
They don't do that much damage?! I highly disagree.

And Infernal pact Warlocks do get the temp HP that the barbs do. In fact, I'd say that they get them with more frequency, given that all an Infernal pact warlock has to do is curse a target and walk away; any one who kills it gives the warlock that benefit.
 

questing gm

First Post
Can anyone explain to me how Hurricane of Blades work? (Lvl 27)
It doesn't say anything about a burst so how does it target more than one opponent?
 



I'm A Banana

Potassium-Rich
Today's my day to argue with you, KM.

Everyone gets their day. ;) Although it looks like WotC and I were on the same wavelength before!

Just think of it as a bonus "power" you pick up at 5th level, but it couldn't be phrased that way because the classes in 4E use the same progression in terms of level-based abilities.

That's what makes it seem sloppy to me. Square peg, round hole. If it doesn't work, why would you try and force it in? Just do something that works with the layout. Especially if the reason you'd be forcing that weirdness isn't that important.

And I don't think making all "rages" daily powers is a "weird design choice" at all. It makes perfect sense, and I think it adds nice flavor to the class to have their signature ability and their daily abilities be the same thing.

What if they had some sort of "basic rage" as a feature? Something that maybe just turns on the additional at-will power benefits and maybe gives you a little damage or temporary HP kicker, maybe even something you can only activate when you're bloodied (or something that activates automatically when you get bloodied or when you use your second wind).

This would mean that the rages could still be mostly attack dailies, while still giving you some advantage for Rage Strike at 1st level.

Alternately, ditch the idea of the rages replacing each other and just let a Barbarian "turn on" one or the other as a free action each turn. Thus, no need for a Rage Strike style feature. Or design them so that they interact without being too powerful. There's not that many of daily attack powers, after all, it's not an insurmountable task to compare them and use them all at once.

It makes some sense, but if it's going to cause problems like this, is it really worth it?

The basic idea is that it's ugly to have this ability sitting there, useless for four levels. That's not a functional concern, but it is an annoyance, and it doesn't need to exist. It makes it seem like the Barbarian is a 5-30 class, not a 1-30 class. It's dead weight on the character sheet for four levels.

It's not a bad idea, but it looks bad. It's sloppy. Ugly. An obvious bandage over the wound when there is no pressing reason, I think, for the wound in the first place. It cures the symptom, not the disease. It's probably like another metaphor that I could conjure up. ;)
 

Merlin the Tuna

First Post
I found it amusing that there was a wall of "Superkill Ultradeath" powers followed by "Level 17 encounter powers: Shoulder Slam".

One of these things is not like the others...
 


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