Barbarian is up!!!

[I'm A Banana]

Flawed analogy, because the two-year-old already has a cookie, and so do all his two-year-old friends. Giving this two-year-old a second cookie wouldn't be fair to the other two year olds. Rage Strike is more like giving a syringe of insulin to a diabetic with a cookie, so that when he eats his second cookie after dinner (along with, once again, all his little two-year-old friends) he doesn't go into a diabetic coma and die.

The analogy isn't flawed, you're just kind of missing the thrust of it.

I'm not arguing about balance at all.

I'm arguing against an ability that is worthless for four levels. Against dead weight on the character sheet.

If you have an ability, you should be able to use it.

If you can't use it, you shouldn't have it.

I understand that this is "like" getting another feature at 5th level, but that's part of what I see as sloppy, because it's "like" getting another feature at 5th level, but it's not getting another feature at 5th level. It's getting a useless feature at 1st level.

 

[Stalker0]

I don't see that as broken.

I just ran some quick math. Took a 30th level barb, gave him a 60% chance to hit.

Damage: d12 (greataxe) + 10 (strength) + 3 (weapon focus) + 6 (magic) + 5 (misc bonuses from powers, items, and anything else I just can't account for).

With those numbers, the barbarian is doing about the equivalent of a 8[w] attack. At 70%, it jumps to 11[w].

I should also mention I did not include crits in the calculation, and barbs do a LOT of damage on crits with their extra attack ability. So I'm sure that would bump it up to 12 or even 13[w].

For a daily that's awesome...more than likely overpowered. For an encounter, completely overpowered.

 

[amysrevenge]

...and the better option, in my mind, would be to make it so daily attacks aren't all "rages," so that he can get daily attack-caliber damage without using a kludge.

To be fair, we've only seen half the dailies at any given level... It might be that the "Thaneblood" dailies aren't rages.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

I am not much of one for delving into math, so shall stick to the more fluffy side of things.

I am extremely glad they have gone the path with Primal of it being atleast for the Barbarian being based off spirits. I have always enjoyed the idea of using/communing with spirits as a form of supernatural empowerment so this is great.

It is also easy to alter for different cultures, for example. I am thinking for one campaign of mine, Barbarians will be essentially Voodoo priest/ess who have been able to summon and be possessed by Loa to do their more supernatural abilities.

One thing (and not just for Barbarians) that I have somewhat a peeve about. Is well WoTC's obsession with elements. I will probably refluff like I have done with most classes the elemental powers into other things (lots of things you can use when talking about spirits).

 

[Iron Dog]

Seems that this barbarian feels a lot like Slaine (Sláine (comics) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) than Conan.

"It's time for a Warp SPASM....ARRRGGGHHHHHH!"

 

[Jack99]

I think the Rage-At-Will is ment to spent the rage (so you are no longer in that "stance") you are in, instead of expending another Daily.

So if you are raging you gain your typical bonuses from that daily until you decide to put your whole (leftover) rage into one strike but are exhausted afterwards (rage ended).

This would make more sense IMHO since you could use it from level 1 onward and would give you a meaningfull tactical choice (much damage now or rage bonuses for a few rounds more...).

We have a winner! At least that's how I read it as well..

 

[Raith5]

We've been discussing this on the Character Op boards on WOTC, and the consensus we've drawn so far:

1) Rage Strike is worthless. Sorry, yes, I said it. It encourages going Nova through your daily powers, and it's not damaging enough to really be worth sacrificing more daily powers than otherwise. One idea we're tossing around is to key Rage Strike off sacrificing healing surges, instead..

And why would you not open up an encounter with a rage daily power... every time.

 

[Starfox]

I'm worried about the 15-minuted-workday barbarian. This might be the reason they made some of the encounter powers very strong, but it is still potentially a problem. And if you do the wise thing and spend one rage/fight, you probably start the grand finale fights with fewer dailies than anyone else. A tricky situation.

That's a power I thought of when I was musing about martial controllers. It seems thematically appropriate for a barbarian but not mechanically appropriate for a striker (especially one that has to charge across that terrain to do damage!).

I feel this barbarian is very close to a controller. And I like that. Attacks over wide areas, very strong knockdown abilities which are a form of control. It does kind of break the Striker mold, tough.

look at the other striker classes. Warlock, Ranger AND Rogue all get extra damage die. Barbs don't.

With no striker bonus damage dice, the powers of the barbarian become very tempting to multi-class into. I wonder if that's why they didn't include a MC feat? Seriously, they will probably change this, bake much of the extra damage into a class ability instead of directly into the powers. The extra attack on a critical tries to look like striker bonus damage but really is too unreliable to count.

 

[Vendark]

1) Rage Strike is worthless. Sorry, yes, I said it. It encourages going Nova through your daily powers,

No, it allows going nova through your daily powers, which is something any other class can do. A barbarian still isn't likely to want to go through his dailies on Rage Strike because then he loses out on his sweet rage buffs for the rest of the day. But if a barbarian player feels that he absolutely needs to be able to drop an enemy right now, he shouldn't feel barred from doing so in a way that no other class experiences.

and it's not damaging enough to really be worth sacrificing more daily powers than otherwise.

You're sort of contradicting yourself. I don't see how it can both a) encourage people to blow through their dailies and b) not be worth spending a daily on.

One idea we're tossing around is to key Rage Strike off sacrificing healing surges, instead.

This is just a different way to nova. A barbarian who's blown all his healing surges on Rage Strike is going to want to rest just as much if not more than a barbarian who's run out of dailies doing the same thing.

 

[Gladius Legis]

No, it allows going nova through your daily powers, which is something any other class can do. A barbarian still isn't likely to want to go through his dailies on Rage Strike because then he loses out on his sweet rage buffs for the rest of the day. But if a barbarian player feels that he absolutely needs to be able to drop an enemy right now, he shouldn't feel barred from doing so in a way that no other class experiences.

Yeah, sacrifice a Rage attack (which is already good damage, anyway) for an attack that isn't much more damaging than what the Rage attack already is. News flash: 9[W] with no rider effects or buffs is NOT that impressive.

Put it this way: Using Rage Strike instead of an actual Rage power is like a Lv. 29 Fighter selecting No Mercy instead of Force the Battle. And EVERYONE knows that's a dumb decision.

You're sort of contradicting yourself. I don't see how it can both a) encourage people to blow through their dailies and b) not be worth spending a daily on.

Ever hear of traps? Rage Strike is the ultimate example of that. Looks exciting at first glance, but is really a pile of suck.

So, no, it's not a contradiction.

This is just a different way to nova. A barbarian who's blown all his healing surges on Rage Strike is going to want to rest just as much if not more than a barbarian who's run out of dailies doing the same thing.

Not really, particularly with a good CON modifier. And it won't be a trap.