Barbarian question

[Sc4recrowe]

I'm in a 3e game and have a barbarian. Is it worth it (or even possible) to two-handed wield with the ambidexterity feat, rage, and use cleave for each weapon? It seems like it, but also could not be understanding something right.

edit- meant to also mention that I would be multiclassing as a fighter to get the feats quicker.

 

[Sekhmet]

I'm a little confused by your premise.
Either you want to Two Weapon Fight (we'll say with two short swords) using Ambidexterity, Rage, and Cleave.
When you fell an opponent, you get one melee attack against another creature within reach. To get an off-hand weapon attack, you need to use a Full Attack action. You may choose to use either your primary or off-hand weapon, but not both.

OR you want to Two Weapon Fight with two Greatswords. You still wouldn't get the extra Cleave attack, but it would at least be funny to watch.

 

[Sc4recrowe]

Well, I had the thought (once again, I probably hadn't thought this out) that once I get great cleave, that using two weapons with the ambidextrous feat would imply that I could use cleave per weapon and in a rage, the penalties for dual wielding wouldn't pose the same issue it does for other dual wielders.

 

[Wyvernhand]

Cleave only triggers once per round, no matter how many weapons you are wielding. You could be wielding 1, 2, 8, or 15 weapons, and it wouldn't matter. You could drop one foe, two foes, 8 foes, or 15 foes, and you'd only ever gain one extra attack.

One attack from dropping one foe once per round. To get more, you'd need Great Cleave, which still limits you to one attack per foe dropped, regardless of how many weapons you wield. Great Cleave is generally not worth spending a feat on. The situations you have to be in to drop multiple CR appropriate foes per round are limited. If you are dropping multiple foes per round, they generally AREN'T CR appropriate, and spending an extra round or two mopping them up isn't very game changing.

Rage doesn't give you any more ability to wield weapons. It simply makes your Str and Con go up for the duration. A higher Str will give you a more likely chance to hit, and deal more damage when you hit, but it won't give you any more attacks, or allow you to wield weapons in a way they are not designed to be wielded.

TWFing is something that 3.0 did very poorly. Its generally not a very good idea, and requires significant resources spent on it to even break even with a simple 2hander and a high Str score.

 

[Sc4recrowe]

Ok, that is what I was wanting to know, thanks. I just the idea was pretty sweet, cleaving two enemies, felling them, and get an additional attack on two more. But that makes sense, thanks.

 

[Wyvernhand]

3.5 (specifically the Miniatures Handbook) has a feat called Double Hit, which allows you to make 2 attacks with 2 weapons during extra attacks like AoOs, or while making standard action attacks. I don't recall if this would give you an attack with both weapons with Cleave, but it might be worth looking into.

 

[Sc4recrowe]

Wait, I thought with the Ambidexterity feat, offhand penalties wouldn't apply?

 

[Wyvernhand]

No. Reread the feat, especially its interaction with TWFing. Offhand penalties are lessened, but they are still there. With both, you'll still suffer a -2 on mainhand and offhand attacks. With one or the other, the penalties will be worse. With neither, the penalties will be so great that you'd best forget you even read the rules on them.

EDIT for reference

Ambidexterity [General]

Prerequisite: Dex 15+.
Benefit: The character ignores all penalties for using an off hand. The character is neither left-handed nor right-handed.
Normal: Without this feat, a character who uses his or her off hand suffers a -4 penalty to attack rolls, ability checks, and skill checks. For example, a right-handed character wielding a weapon with her left hand suffers a -4 penalty to attack rolls with that weapon.
Special: This feat helps offset the penalty for fighting with two weapons


Two-Weapon Fighting [General]

Benefit: The character's penalties for fighting with two weapons are reduced by 2.



Two Weapon Fighting

If a normal character (i.e. a character without the multiattack and/or multidexterity feats) wields a second weapon (fights two handed), that character can get one extra attack per round with that weapon. Fighting in this way is very hard, however, and the character suffers a -6 penalty for regular attacks with the first hand and a -10 penalty to the attack with a other hand.
A character can reduce these stiff penalties in three ways:

• If a character's second weapon is light, the penalties are reduced by 2 each.
• The Ambidexterity feat reduces the penalty against the second weapon by 4.
• The Two-Weapon Fighting feat reduces both penalties by 2.

From the 3.0 SRD.

So, if the character has neither feat, and is not wielding a light offhand weapon, they get -6 on main hand and -10 on offhand.
If the character has Ambidextarity, and the offhand is not light, they get -6 on main hand and -6 on offhand.
If the character has Ambidextarity, and the offhand IS light, they get -4 on main hand and -4 on offhand.
If the character has Ambidextarity, TWFing, and the offhand is light, they get -2 on the main hand and -2 on the offhand. Best case scenario.

EDIT EDIT: Its worth noting that the 3.5 ruleset eliminated Ambidextarity as a rediculously cruel and unusual feat tax. Its benefits are now rolled into the TWFing feat.

 

[Sc4recrowe]

Right, now I feel stupid,lol. Cool, thanks.

 

[Wyvernhand]

No sweat, that's what the boards are for. Learning, discussing, and debating. Welcome to En-World!