Barbarian raging and combat expertise

[Lopke_Quasath]

So, a raging barbarian cannot use Combat Expertise as per PHB.

Does that also imply that all the feats along the Combat Expertise path are also unusable.

I.e. Improved Disarm, Improved Trip, Improved Feint, and Whirlwind Attack

cannot be used?


Cheers.

 

[Marimmar@Home]

No, the rules just say that you cannot use Combat Expertise not the other feats. You only lose access to a Feat if you lose one or more of the prerequsites. Since you are still considered in possession of the prerequisite Combat Expertise (just unable to use it right now) you can Whirlwind all day long.

~Marimmar

 

[Hypersmurf]

Right.

You can't use Point Blank Shot against someone 150 feet away; that doesn't mean you can't use Far Shot, even though PBS is a prerequisite.

You can Cleave even if you're not using Power Attack, even though Power Attack is a prerequisite.

-Hyp.

 

[Tatsukun]

Sorry if this is a hijack...

We have been house ruling that a Barb can use Combat Expertise if he has the "Righteous Wrath" feat from Compete Divine.

I have recently been mulling this decision over, and I can't decide if it's overpowered (primarily in comparison to the Fighter). The idea is that Rage has only a few down sides (restricted actions, lower AC) and this method effectively eliminates them.

Is that worth more than a feat?

What do other people think?

-Tatsu

 

[Marimmar@Home]

Right.

I listened and learned, oh blue one.

~Marimmar

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Sorry if this is a hijack...

We have been house ruling that a Barb can use Combat Expertise if he has the "Righteous Wrath" feat from Compete Divine.

I have recently been mulling this decision over, and I can't decide if it's overpowered (primarily in comparison to the Fighter). The idea is that Rage has only a few down sides (restricted actions, lower AC) and this method effectively eliminates them.

Is that worth more than a feat?

What do other people think?

-Tatsu

Keep it. So he wants to give up the attack bonus he just got to counter the ac penalty he just got. Let him. He still has to use a class ability with limited uses per day to rage.

 

[kjenks]

Rage also prevents spellcasting, item activation, Tumble, etc.

While raging, a barbarian cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except for Balance, Escape Artist, Intimidate, and Ride), the Concentration skill, or any abilities that require patience or concentration, nor can he cast spells or activate magic items that require a command word, a spell trigger (such as a wand), or spell completion (such as a scroll) to function.

Put another way, the raging character can't use these skills:

APPRAISE (INT)
BLUFF (CHA)
CONCENTRATION (CON)
DECIPHER SCRIPT (INT; TRAINED ONLY)
DIPLOMACY (CHA)
DISABLE DEVICE (INT; TRAINED ONLY)
DISGUISE (CHA)
FORGERY (INT)
GATHER INFORMATION (CHA)
HANDLE ANIMAL (CHA; TRAINED ONLY)
HIDE (DEX; ARMOR CHECK PENALTY)
KNOWLEDGE (INT; TRAINED ONLY)
MOVE SILENTLY (DEX; ARMOR CHECK PENALTY)
OPEN LOCK (DEX; TRAINED ONLY)
PERFORM (CHA)
SEARCH (INT)
SLEIGHT OF HAND (DEX; TRAINED ONLY; ARMOR CHECK PENALTY)
SPELLCRAFT (INT; TRAINED ONLY)
TUMBLE (DEX; TRAINED ONLY; ARMOR CHECK PENALTY)
USE MAGIC DEVICE (CHA; TRAINED ONLY)
USE ROPE (DEX)

So there's a pretty big downside to Rage.