Barbarian vs Frenzied Berseker
dirkformica
First Post
If you're willing to wait until closer to 10th level for FB you can take Endurance and Steadfast Determination from PHB2 to switch Con for Wis for Will saves and re-roll Fort saves. Human Cloistered Cleric (UA) 1 / Fighter 2/ Barb 7 / Frenzy 10 is pretty much completely party safe and is totally unoptimized. There are a few builds using Complete Champion that have ridiculously low chances of party Frenzy (although I think the best builds use Savage Species' Cumbrous Will which might not be widely available.) Still, with PHB 2 you should be fine if you delay entry (plus you don't have to really choose between Barb and Frenzy, you get a decent amount of both.)
Another weird access to Frenzied Berserker is the Unearthed Arcana Druidic Avenger. You might be able to find some combo with Master of Many Forms from Complete Adventurer if you can use flaws. Something like Cloistered Cleric (UA) 1 / Druidic Avenger (UA) 7 / Master of Many Forms (CAdv) 2 / Frenzied Berserker 10.
Requires 2 flaws to get entry feats and Steadfast Determination, but it's nice for Cave Troll (Monster Manual 3) form with all it's extraordinary abilities thanks to 4th level Spell Compendium spell Enhance Wildhshape. Your con will be at least 27 if you have no items or spells for a +8 to Will, +4 effective from Rage (+4 con and +2 Will save) along with about a base 5 Will, so you might need to scrape up a +2 bonus from either boosted Con or Saves at 11th level to pretty much completely avoid threatening your party (which should be fairly easy as a Druid since Bear's Endurance alone will do it.) The whole Special Attacks: Dazing blow, improved grab, pounce, rake, rend, Special Qualities: Darkvision 90 ft., fast healing 8, low-light vision, scent, Str 29, Dex 13, Con 27, and +11 Natural Armor will be nice with your limited spell casting and future Frenzied Berserker goodness.
It's a shame it basically requires Flaws however.
Another weird access to Frenzied Berserker is the Unearthed Arcana Druidic Avenger. You might be able to find some combo with Master of Many Forms from Complete Adventurer if you can use flaws. Something like Cloistered Cleric (UA) 1 / Druidic Avenger (UA) 7 / Master of Many Forms (CAdv) 2 / Frenzied Berserker 10.
Requires 2 flaws to get entry feats and Steadfast Determination, but it's nice for Cave Troll (Monster Manual 3) form with all it's extraordinary abilities thanks to 4th level Spell Compendium spell Enhance Wildhshape. Your con will be at least 27 if you have no items or spells for a +8 to Will, +4 effective from Rage (+4 con and +2 Will save) along with about a base 5 Will, so you might need to scrape up a +2 bonus from either boosted Con or Saves at 11th level to pretty much completely avoid threatening your party (which should be fairly easy as a Druid since Bear's Endurance alone will do it.) The whole Special Attacks: Dazing blow, improved grab, pounce, rake, rend, Special Qualities: Darkvision 90 ft., fast healing 8, low-light vision, scent, Str 29, Dex 13, Con 27, and +11 Natural Armor will be nice with your limited spell casting and future Frenzied Berserker goodness.
It's a shame it basically requires Flaws however.
Darklone
Registered User
1st point: Playing a FB savely is not only about making your will save, it's about not killing your buddies if you get dominated as well. Sure, a good will save helps, but it won't save you often enough and a FB is much more likely to instakill his own party than a normal barbarian.
2nd point: FBs deathless frenzy is nice... you kill anything and then you are dead. Cool. Really cool ability for a PC. You can't stop to fight, it's dangerous to get healing and you will keep running after fleeing enemies, possibly leading into an ambush. No problem, you kill them all and then you notice you're too low in negative hitpoints. Byebye.
2nd point: FBs deathless frenzy is nice... you kill anything and then you are dead. Cool. Really cool ability for a PC. You can't stop to fight, it's dangerous to get healing and you will keep running after fleeing enemies, possibly leading into an ambush. No problem, you kill them all and then you notice you're too low in negative hitpoints. Byebye.
The Frenzied Berserker PrC is a mistake and ought to be errata'd out of existence.
It ends up being either:
1. Unplayable, because of the way everyone in the party is forced to deal with (and constantly threatened by) the drawbacks of one person's character selection.
or,
2. Grossly, wildly imbalanced when used in a way that manages to minimize the impact of those drawbacks (enemy NPC, in particular).
In fact, even if the drawbacks were made to work, somehow, the class would still be a problem, because few things eff-up a DMs ability to design appropriately challenging encounters like having one character who does 3 or 4 times as much damage as the other PCs. (the old "if it can stand up to the FB for a couple of rounds, it might one-hit the other PCs" problem)
It ends up being either:
1. Unplayable, because of the way everyone in the party is forced to deal with (and constantly threatened by) the drawbacks of one person's character selection.
or,
2. Grossly, wildly imbalanced when used in a way that manages to minimize the impact of those drawbacks (enemy NPC, in particular).
In fact, even if the drawbacks were made to work, somehow, the class would still be a problem, because few things eff-up a DMs ability to design appropriately challenging encounters like having one character who does 3 or 4 times as much damage as the other PCs. (the old "if it can stand up to the FB for a couple of rounds, it might one-hit the other PCs" problem)
Tsillanabor
First Post
In the evil campaign I play in I run a Barbarian/Frenzied Berserker. The other characters pretty much kept to the other side of the battlefield when I frenzied. Now that we are near-epic level, everyone can pretty much stay away at will, and I can snap out before I attack them. Even if I roll that 1, it is unlikely to happen twice in a row.
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