Bards and Hierophant Druids

[Particle_Man]

Bards in 1st ed. are said to get all the abilities of Druids (except that the spell list is different, notably lacking in 6th and 7th level spells).

But with Unearthed Arcana, the druid can become a hierophant druid, which gets some nifty elemental abilities.

Do high level bards also get those nifty elemental abilities? Both Bards and Hierophant Druids go up to 23rd level.

 

[JonnyP71]

Nope, because they are not Druids per se, they are Bards. They don't get the other Druidic powers, just the spells.

 

[Particle_Man]

Well under the description of Bards it does say: "The bard gains druidic powers as a druid of the same level, with the exception of druidic spells as explained below." So, you know, changing into animal forms, etc. are already part of the druid package.

 

[Man in the Funny Hat]

Holy crap. It DOES say that, doesn't it? I was about to quote you chapter and verse saying you're wrong and that Bards are stupidly OP as it is without giving them full druid abilities on top of the spells... But it... Wow. That is just insane. Not that I ever saw anyone run a bard in 40 years, or if _I_ ever did "allow" them in my own campaigns nobody ever actually went for it. Mostly I just said, "Ain't happening twinkletoes," disallowing the class flat-out and all was right with the world. That's just sick though and I never noticed it until now.

Now I almost want to run a bard in some poor, unsuspecting DM's 1E game and just abuse the snot out of it all, since they're, like, TWICE as munchkin as I ever thought they were...

 

[Particle_Man]

It surprised me too. And here I thought I knew what there was to know about the 1st ed. Player's Handbook. To be fair, the Hierophant Druids come out in a separate book, but it is curious that Bard and H.Druid top out at 23rd level.

I could see a 23rd level NE bard as the BBEG of a campaign, though.

 

[JonnyP71]

I'm also surprised, I don't remember that line being there!

Easy to handwave away though , after all, they are an optional extra class anyway.

 

[Celebrim]

I've never seen an official ruling or even a FAQ either way, but personally I think that giving up your 6th and 7th level spells is sufficiently a penalty that I'd be OK with it working that way.

However, if you get technical and rules lawyer-y about it, Heirophant Druid is not the same class as Druid, but rather in later terms a 'prestige class' that you can take after you've fulfilled certain other requirements. (For that matter, so is Bard.) So I think by a very strict reading of the rules, they get the class abilities of Druids only, and not of Heirophant Druids.

That said, it wouldn't be in any way game breaking to allow it. Bards are not overpowered except in two respects - the number of HD they can have and the speed with which you can level one up. But they aren't really that much more powerful than other dual-class tricks you can play if you have good starting stats on the character, and indeed probably less broken than cleric-fighter builds or even fighter-M-U builds.

 

[Particle_Man]

I still have an idea for a 13th level assassin/14th+ level illusionist "deep cover" dual-class build.

 

[mach1.9pants]

So your going to play that from level one?

 

[Particle_Man]

Alas, the chance of me playing that at all is remote these days.