Base Attack Innovation

[Wulf Ratbane]

This is why multi-classing as a warrior-spellcaster sucks. A Ftr14/Wiz2 would have caster level of 2, but would be facing (in theory) 16th level opponents with a Defense rating of +16. His magic missile would be 100% useless.

One of the goals of 4e is to make "gish" builds useful and fun. A very good way to do that is to have a "magical attack" rating that's based on level/HD, not just caster level. I'm sure there are other ways to do it too, but using just caster level will not get you there.

If wizards get a "good" magic attack progression and a "poor" BAB progression, then it stands to reason that fighters may have a "good" BAB progression and a "poor" magic attack progression.

In other words, sure, you can "just use caster level," provided that Fighters get some non-zero increase to caster level.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

This is why multi-classing as a warrior-spellcaster sucks. A Ftr14/Wiz2 would have caster level of 2, but would be facing (in theory) 16th level opponents with a Defense rating of +16. His magic missile would be 100% useless.

Unless they do it the Bo9S way and give you half your non-wizard levels as caster level. That would make your caster level 9.

One of the goals of 4e is to make "gish" builds useful and fun.

I don't think a guy with 14 levels of fighter and two levels of wizard should blast people away with arcane destruction. He's a fighter who has been picking up some magic in evening class. The rules should not make him nearly as competent at magic as a 16th-level wizard.

 

[RPG_Tweaker]

This is why multi-classing as a warrior-spellcaster sucks. A Ftr14/Wiz2 would have caster level of 2, but would be facing (in theory) 16th level opponents with a Defense rating of +16. His magic missile would be 100% useless.

But shouldn't some guy that's been a fighter for most of career that just started learning magic... suck at it?

It doesn't seem to follow that I can pick up two levels of WIZ late in life and suddenly be flinging devastating magic.

 

[jasin]

I don't think a guy with 14 levels of fighter and two levels of wizard should blast people away with arcane destruction. He's a fighter who has been picking up some magic in evening class. The rules should not make him nearly as competent at magic as a 16th-level wizard.

Ftr14/Wiz2 isn't really a problem even in 3E. Ftr2/Wiz14 is, and Ftr8/Wiz8 even more so. Now, even a Ftr8/Wiz8 should be able to match a Wiz16 in wizardry, however, he should be able to match both Ftr16 and Wiz16 in general overall power/usefulness... which is hardly the case in 3E.

 

[Exen Trik]

But shouldn't some guy that's been a fighter for most of career that just started learning magic... suck at it?

It doesn't seem to follow that I can pick up two levels of WIZ late in life and suddenly be flinging devastating magic.

That right there is the main difficulty I've had when trying to houserule on this kind of thing. It works fine for someone who started early in his career but took a different path, but for someone just starting it makes little sense.

The easiest way to go about this is to change the rationale, so that the increased level based bonus is just a natural source of power that high leveled characters have, instead of anything having to do with magical ability. That, or just a passing understanding of magic in general, much the same argument for a wizards BAB increase even if he never takes a swing or fires a shot his whole career.

In any case, his magic shouldn't be devastating by any means, but it should at least have some use. In 4e, I expect a couple levels of wizard could allow a fighter to access a couple of utility spells, some kind of limited battlefield control, and do an arcane blast with some usefulness (combined with a melee attack maybe?).

So I was having a think, mostly inspired by the SWSE system and the idea that 4e will completely rearrange the maths of the game.

I think a major component of the change will be in the three tiers of Heroic, Paragon, and Epic. Each one will be somehow recalculated to be in the "sweet spot" as we knew it in 3e. How that will be done and not seem forced is beyond me, but that seems to be the intent.