Bastion in Black and White?
- Thread starter JoeGKushner
- Start date
thundershot
Adventurer
Nellisir said:
Okay, bad example. More like Mongoose's 128 page books for 20 bucks. 2 dollars off of a Bastion book just to lose color really doesn't alter the price much, yet in my opinion, I lose a lot. Just my opinion, I guess.
Chris
Nellisir
Hero
thundershot said:
If the 128 page count is Mongoose's Quintessential series, then yeah, that'd be nice. The aforementioned Green Ronin book that's crushing Spells & Magic is Plot & Poison, and that clocks in at $24.95 for 160 pages (I loathe the header font they used!)
It's all a matter of opinion. I bought a few Mongoose Quint books, and returned them. Their Slaine books have perked my interest, but I haven't found their "generic d20" products that well done, and thus, not worth $20. I have bought Bastion and AEG (the "other" $25/96 page publisher) because of reliable* quality and interesting material -- Way of the Samurai & the Clan books have given me alot of ideas for my (standard western euro-fantasy) campaign, much more than the Quint. Fighter did. The $25 was, and is, well spent. IMO.
Cheers,
Nell.
*I've been biting my tongue on this, and it probably isn't the forum, but...the editorial ball seems to have been seriously dropped on the nymph "racial class" in Faeries. +3 Chr, +1 Wis, -2 Str, -1 Con? Blinding Beauty (which has a permanent radius effect) as equivalent to a 2nd level spell? "...we see there are no bonuses to attack other than the +1 gained from Strength."????)
I was severely disappointed by this portion of the book.
thundershot
Adventurer
Believe me, I'm not trying to complain just for the sake of complaining. I'm only expressing my opinion strongly because I care strongly for my Bastion books. When deciding between two books, if one is color and the other isn't, color will always win over.
Even if the regular books weren't color, I wish the Oathbound books would be, because they're put together so wonderfully, and the colors truly add to the final package. And to stop on the third book of a continuing series... it just loses its "oomph" to me, is all. Glossy books tend to stay open easier when laying in bed reading, and the printing and art are so much crisper. I suppose the decision has already been made with no going back, so I guess my words really don't mean much.
As for the cost issue. Dropping 2 dollars really isn't worth losing color. I understand the cost for the company, but surely there'd be another way to do it. Also, comparing other books of similar size (at least the ones I buy), Mongoose books are 128 pages at 20 dollars, and FFG's 25 dollar books are 176 pages and HARDCOVER. Granted, they don't utilize as much space as Bastion, but still... I feel I'm getting my money's worth. Bastion's books were only 96 pages for 25 bucks, but to me, it was well worth it for the color. So 96 pages for 23 dollars in b&w? To me, it seems to deter people like me who bought into the color, but won't bring in the people who balked at the 25 dollar price tag before, since to most people, 2 dollars really isn't a big deal.
Yes, I will buy the next Oathbound book, and I hope I eat my words. If it's not what I perceive as a good value, then I doubt I'd buy the next one, but fortunately, I can still enjoy Oathbound with the two or three books I'll have.
Thanks for listening,
Chris Dickinson
(who is really really really trying to not sound like he's whining...)
Even if the regular books weren't color, I wish the Oathbound books would be, because they're put together so wonderfully, and the colors truly add to the final package. And to stop on the third book of a continuing series... it just loses its "oomph" to me, is all. Glossy books tend to stay open easier when laying in bed reading, and the printing and art are so much crisper. I suppose the decision has already been made with no going back, so I guess my words really don't mean much.
As for the cost issue. Dropping 2 dollars really isn't worth losing color. I understand the cost for the company, but surely there'd be another way to do it. Also, comparing other books of similar size (at least the ones I buy), Mongoose books are 128 pages at 20 dollars, and FFG's 25 dollar books are 176 pages and HARDCOVER. Granted, they don't utilize as much space as Bastion, but still... I feel I'm getting my money's worth. Bastion's books were only 96 pages for 25 bucks, but to me, it was well worth it for the color. So 96 pages for 23 dollars in b&w? To me, it seems to deter people like me who bought into the color, but won't bring in the people who balked at the 25 dollar price tag before, since to most people, 2 dollars really isn't a big deal.
Yes, I will buy the next Oathbound book, and I hope I eat my words. If it's not what I perceive as a good value, then I doubt I'd buy the next one, but fortunately, I can still enjoy Oathbound with the two or three books I'll have.
Thanks for listening,
Chris Dickinson
(who is really really really trying to not sound like he's whining...)
Sir Whiskers
First Post
Just my two cents' worth:
1. Color is rarely a deciding factor when I buy a product - I can think of exactly one product I bought for the color artwork, and I considered it a splurge. If B&W products help keep a good publisher in business, I can live with it.
2. Price *does* matter. While I'm willing to pay more for a product I must have, there are really very few of those. I, like most consumers, look for value. For me, value is defined by how much the product helps my game (which rarely involves color).
Sure I'd love to get great content, superb production, excellent color art, AND low prices, but I can understand if it just ain't gonna happen.
1. Color is rarely a deciding factor when I buy a product - I can think of exactly one product I bought for the color artwork, and I considered it a splurge. If B&W products help keep a good publisher in business, I can live with it.
2. Price *does* matter. While I'm willing to pay more for a product I must have, there are really very few of those. I, like most consumers, look for value. For me, value is defined by how much the product helps my game (which rarely involves color).
Sure I'd love to get great content, superb production, excellent color art, AND low prices, but I can understand if it just ain't gonna happen.
thundershot
Adventurer
I understand what you mean, and I agree, for the most part. But to add to my point, I picked up FAERIES today, and while I haven't fully read it yet, what I did read impressed me to no end. (Though all of those weird +1/-1 to ability scores for the races will be changed to +2/-2) But the overall package of the book wouldn't be worth 28 dollars (okay, 26) if it was black and white. It's hard to justify. To make things worse, the color art throughout the book was SUPERB, and I just cringe at how awful some of it would look if on non glossy paper, much less without color. I'll definitely treasure this book, being the last Bastion color book (and a topic that I find very interesting!).
Any chance I could get an example of a product that uses 60# paper? Hopefully it's flexible enough to stay open while laying down...
Thanks
Chris
Any chance I could get an example of a product that uses 60# paper? Hopefully it's flexible enough to stay open while laying down...
Thanks
Chris
I think that you're placing a little too much emphasis on page count rather than content and size. Bastion generally uses a smaller font that maximizes page utilization. On average, a single page contains 850 words in a Bastion book, while a single page for other publishers contains 500-750 words per page. Through in more artwork and you'll see the words per page drop dramatically. So simply saying that X company's 128 page book contains 33% more content than a 96 page book is probably not entirely accurate. Sure there are more pages, but you may very well be getting much fewer words per page. And it all boils down to how many words and content you're getting rather than sheets of paper.
Darrin Drader
Explorer
tf360 said:
850? We usually estimate about 1,000 words per page when writing our sections.
JoeGKushner
Adventurer
Part of the problem is going to be perception vs. reality. Ironically enough, I bet the people who complain the most are going to be the people buying Bastion products the most. They're not going to see the $3 being a major discount on the color vs. black and white.
Take the poster whose already commented about 96 page sourcebooks being $20. Already you've outpriced them. How about the Q books at 128 pages?
Even if the wordcount is higher, most people aren't going to be aware of this and have some deeper knowledge of the economics on the situation.
Word count is impressive and perhaps some awareness ads should go up on it.
Something like, "Man, I can't believe how inexpensive this book was. Look at it man! 128 pages for only $20 dollars. I bet you feel robbed now huh?"
"Actually, this book has a tighter layout and if you'll take a brief look, will see that there is more words per page here than that book. Probably twice as much. Guess this is really a 192 page book eh? What were you saying about being robbed."
"You have shamed me. I must commit seppuku."
Take the poster whose already commented about 96 page sourcebooks being $20. Already you've outpriced them. How about the Q books at 128 pages?
Even if the wordcount is higher, most people aren't going to be aware of this and have some deeper knowledge of the economics on the situation.
Word count is impressive and perhaps some awareness ads should go up on it.
Something like, "Man, I can't believe how inexpensive this book was. Look at it man! 128 pages for only $20 dollars. I bet you feel robbed now huh?"
"Actually, this book has a tighter layout and if you'll take a brief look, will see that there is more words per page here than that book. Probably twice as much. Guess this is really a 192 page book eh? What were you saying about being robbed."
"You have shamed me. I must commit seppuku."
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