Batman. Where to start?

[Cthulhu's Librarian]

I'm not familiar with Killing Joke; what's the premise of that one?

It's written by Alan Moore, and contains what may be the origin of the Joker (although it might not be his true origin, as there are apparently several inconsistant stories about his "true" origin). It is also the story where (spoiler)

Spoiler

Joker shoots and paralyzes Barbara Gordon

. Here is the DC page about the story (it has a few spoilers as well). http://www.dccomics.com/graphic_novels/?gn=1282

 

[The_Universe]

Batman: Year One is infinitely superior to the Dark Knight Returns, if only because the art in Dark Knight Returns is TERRIBLE.

The story in DKR is alright, and Batman does beat the snot out of superman, despite being ancient and having no powers (I don't think Supes has ever won a fight with Batman, in fact) but it's VERY dark - almost too dark for Batman. ESPECIALLY in DKR, Miller makes the Dark Knight seem less Knight, and a lot more Dark - there's practically nothing redeemable in the World's Greatest Detective (in Miller's version, anyway).

But Year One, by the same writer (different artist - thank goodness!) is definitely a decent retelling of the origin. I enjoyed it a lot more, even if it suffers from the same "lets strip Batman of everything good/noble" that the other work by Miller does.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

I'm not familiar with Killing Joke; what's the premise of that one?

It's a Joker origin story told by Alan Moore and Brian Bolland. It's "THE" Joker origin story IMO. A lot of it is from the Joker's POV and it has the events that changed Barbara Gordon into a parapalegic. It's great.

As for Batman, more recently he has become more and more of an ass and is becoming a borderline paranoid nutjob. The character needs a new writer who will quit making him more and more nuts to try and one up Miller on the driven nutjob aspect. Older writers, not just pre-crisis, used to have Bruce Wayne involved and Batman wasn't as totally dark and nutty. Anyway...

I'd get

Batman: Year 1
Batman: The Dark Knight Returns(I think the art is excellent but it's like all of Millers stuff, a lot of people don't like it.)
Batman: The Killing Joke

 

[Paragon Kobold]

Batman: Year One is infinitely superior to the Dark Knight Returns, if only because the art in Dark Knight Returns is TERRIBLE.

We disagree. Ergo: You are wrong.

The story in DKR is alright, and Batman does beat the snot out of superman, despite being ancient and having no powers (I don't think Supes has ever won a fight with Batman, in fact) but it's VERY dark - almost too dark for Batman. ESPECIALLY in DKR, Miller makes the Dark Knight seem less Knight, and a lot more Dark - there's practically nothing redeemable in the World's Greatest Detective (in Miller's version, anyway).

The whole point of DKR is that it is dark. It is 'How dark can one make a story
with Batman in it?' And the answer is: very. Miller took the well known, iconic
character of Batman and infused it with extra darkness, achieving a much more powerful
story than if he had just created a new, dark, character. The trick is that we all
know Batman, his origin and villains from childhood, and so the darkness speaks to us
on a very primal level.


Of course if you don't like darkness it's probably not for you...

 

[The_Universe]

I don't like darkness of the sake of darkness, is all.

Miller takes the Dark Knight, and loses the Knight, entirely. He (often) abandons half of what makes the character unique, in favor of making him essentially the Punisher, but one that doesn't use guns.

Anyway - if you like the darker Batman, that's cool. A lot of people do.

 

[Enforcer]

Sounds like I'll be picking up Year One first, as I like the origin stories. I haven't read anything with Frank Miller as of yet (mostly Mike Mignola on Hellboy, Alan Moore on The Watchmen and League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, and then some other folks on Hellblazer and Ultimate X-Men), so I suppose this'll be a good way to test him out.

I'm seeing Sin City on Saturday as well. Anyways, thanks for the help folks! I'll be saving this thread for after I finish Year One.

 

[Desdichado]

Sounds like you're pretty well prepped on dark comics, then. Ultimate X-men is relatively dark. The Ultimates, though -- now that's pretty dark. Gives Frank Miller a bit of competition in that regard.

 

[Cthulhu's Librarian]

It's "THE" Joker origin story IMO.

But how can you tell if the Joker is telling the truth? He might just be making the story up, just because he can. He's crazy, right?

 

[Cthulhu's Librarian]

The Ultimates, though -- now that's pretty dark.

I really like almost all the Ultimate universe, but I can't stand the Ultimates. I read the first series, and it ruined several characters, IMHO.

 

[The_Universe]

Ultimate Spider Man is especially good - when I'm wasting time in Borders, or something, I always pick one of those trades up.