Battle Standard of Healing Argument Revisited

[Xyrlove Woodsoul]

How does it work in conjunction with Healer's Brooch +1 and Healer's Gloves and outside of combat?

Outside of combat, it works just like it is written, correct?
And if Gloves the Healer and Healer's Brooch is used in conjunction with the Standard, then for the Healer's Gloves, each player gets +1d6 hp for each healing surge he or she spends, and for the Healer's Brooch, +1 hp for each surge he or she spends? That is, the only people who get to benefit from the GotH and HB are those who spend a healing surge?

Thus, if there are 5 players within the zone, and each player within the zone spends 3 healing surges a piece, then each player would receive a total of, 3d6+18 hp?

Note: Im not concerned with multiple Healing Standards, I don't allow them to overlap.

 

[Aulirophile]

Revisted?

Property: When you use a power that lets one or more creatures spend a healing surge to regain hit points, one target regains an extra 1d6 hit points.

Property: When you use a power that enables you or an ally to regain hit points, add the brooch’s enhancement bonus to the hit points gained.

Power (Encounter • Healing, Zone): Standard Action. When you plant the battle standard in your space or an adjacent square, it creates a zone of healing energy in a close burst 5. Whenever you or an ally spends a healing surge while in the zone, you and all allies in the zone regain 1 hit point.
This effect lasts until the end of the encounter or until the battle standard is removed from the ground. Any character in or adjacent to a battle standard’s square can remove it from the ground as a standard action.

So... few things, whoever planted the Standard is the one who used the power. So the Brooch's property would be added only if the person wearing it was the one who used the Standard, and everyone who gained HP from the Standard would gain 1+Brooch's Mod. The Standard is a Power that allows you or allies to regain HP.

Gloves of the Healer provide no benefit at all from the Standard. "When you use a power that allows....". The Standard's Power doesn't allow you to spend healing surges, it merely has a benefit when doing so. Not the same thing.

So if you planted the Standard and Second Winded, each ally would get 1+Brooch Mod, and you'd get Surge Value+1+Brooch Mod.

Worth noting that even if this were not true, and it is, Gloves of the Healer wouldn't work because a Power must allow you to spend the surge. Just resting during a short rest there is no Power allowing you to spend surges. Unless you used a Healing Power (Leader's Word etc), rested five minutes, etc., (and why aren't you doing that btw? If you want to optimize between combat healing that is the way to do, none of this 1 hp here, 1 hp there crap. Get your Leader to take Restful Healing and get Surge+max dice on your Leader's word).

 

[Xyrlove Woodsoul]

Thanks. That all makes sense. Im not overly concerned with optimizing healing, I just didn't want to "short change," anyone.
But is it still the case, that even during a short rest, one can use the standard to heal, as the standard does inside of combat?
The reason I ask, is because I asked the above question before in here, and some prominent rules lawyers in here told me that it doesn't, and the only benefit that would be gained from the standard during a short rest, is when somebody used a power, or their second wind, and I thought that the latter sounded a bit whacky (but they are "spot on" with a lot of other stuff- thus, I was totally confused).
Thus, outside of combat, is it permissible to use the Standard for the "one hp here, one hp there," crap?

 

[Aulirophile]

Thanks. That all makes sense. Im not overly concerned with optimizing healing, I just didn't want to "short change," anyone.
But is it still the case, that even during a short rest, one can use the standard to heal, as the standard does inside of combat?
The reason I ask, is because I asked the above question before in here, and some prominent rules lawyers in here told me that it doesn't, and the only benefit that would be gained from the standard during a short rest, is when somebody used a power, or their second wind, and I thought that the latter sounded a bit whacky (but they are "spot on" with a lot of other stuff- thus, I was totally confused).
Thus, outside of combat, is it permissible to use the Standard for the "one hp here, one hp there," crap?

Yes. The Standard doesn't require that the surge be spent via a power, only that it be spent, and you can use items outside of combat if you want to (subject to DM Fiat and the Bag of Rats).

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Thanks. That all makes sense. Im not overly concerned with optimizing healing, I just didn't want to "short change," anyone.
But is it still the case, that even during a short rest, one can use the standard to heal, as the standard does inside of combat?
The reason I ask, is because I asked the above question before in here, and some prominent rules lawyers in here told me that it doesn't, and the only benefit that would be gained from the standard during a short rest, is when somebody used a power, or their second wind, and I thought that the latter sounded a bit whacky (but they are "spot on" with a lot of other stuff- thus, I was totally confused).
Thus, outside of combat, is it permissible to use the Standard for the "one hp here, one hp there," crap?

As others have said, the BSoH will work perfectly well out of combat. It is actually a pretty good add on. I mean consider that if say 5 surges get spent during a short rest and with a +1 Broach of Healing EVERY character is gaining 10 hit points for free. This can easily save the party 2-3 surges. Even if nobody needs much healing you're still going to get easily 6-10 bonus hit points. It definitely adds up. BSoH is a very nice little item for Heroic Tier and is still fairly useful even in epic.

 

[Shin Okada]

But beware.

If you use an item's encounter power AFTER eliminating all the foes but BEFORE taking a short rest, that encounter power regains during the short rest.

But if you use an item's encounter power DURING a short rest, you need ANOTHER SHORT REST to regain that item's encounter power.

 

[Xyrlove Woodsoul]

And it's kind of funny, and I know it can be useful in combat, but for 23 levels now, in my group the BSoH has never been pulled out during an encounter. A lot has to do with the fact that, due to the groups abilities, they always end up spreading out after a round or two, and have done that so much, and for so long now, that they always forget the Standard works, in combat, too!

 

[Destil]

I had a player who had one for a good three levels, and I believe it was used once...