Battle vs horde of weak monsters, how to make this fun?

[Satyrn]

Create a Huge or Gargantuan swarm-trait monster that represents dozens of gibberlings. Use however many you need to make that a challenge of the difficulty you want. When it gets to half hit points, it does less damage as per regular swarms. When it gets to 25% hit points, it breaks into X number of individual gibberlings.

That was gonna be my exact suggestion! (Well, except for the half hit points part)

 

[smbakeresq]

I have half the monsters just use the help action for the other half. While you roll the same dice it’s 2 at time, and makes the combat faster.

Don’t forget grapple and swarm low STR PCs or shove them prone or into things. Makes combat exciting. Make sure they get pushed into campfires or braziers or something

 

[Gadget]

Sounds like the PCs will need to use tactics to not get swarmed under or death of a thousand cuts. If Spirit Guardians and/or other good area attacks come out, it might make it relatively easy or boring. If that is the case, maybe break the opponents into groups or waves, so that if one group gets decimated, the other groups will flee or hold off to harry the group at the first sign of weakness.

On the other hand, if the big guns spells don't come out or trivialize the encounter, it may force the PCs to find a corner or doorway where they can keep the whole horde from coming at the and getting surrounded. If they reduce the number of incoming attacks through smart tactics, they could reduce the effects of the death by a thousand cuts. Say if they formed a line with cleric healing every now and then. Perhaps a well placed Fog Cloud or Silent Image could help the party divide and conquer, or fall back/flank the horde to a better position.

 

[CapnZapp]

Somebody forgot to tell the designer of Spirit Guardians of this whole idea that really low-level foes are supposed to still be dangerous.

That spell really isn't well thought through, in the sense that either your party has it or not. A horde encounter will either be trivial or overwhelming with nothing in between.

Since the OP's party has a cleric that has discovered this spell, I really have no better suggestion than to forget about any monster with really low hp. I assume the Cleric player is much like mine, selecting a Cleric subclass with heavy armor and shield, then spending his actions on Dodge (so any attack is made at AC 20+ with disadvantage) and letting the spell do the killin' (also proficiency and advantage on Concentration saves, although perhaps not already at 6th level).

 

[Saeviomagy]

Just convert it over and run it as is (probably with goblin or kobold stats). Play fast and loose with movement (ie - each round fill the 100 closest squares to the PCs with gibberlings, decrementing as appropriate for dead gibberlings). If squares would obviously require an opportunity attack to reach, let the PCs get an attack off, and if they kill the creature, leave the square empty. Apply "on entering" effects like spirit guardians after that. That way, you won't just have the entire horde run into a single round of the spell.

Don't worry about assisting or attacking during movement or anything, just roll an attack per gibberling that ends up next to a PC.

If the PCs don't have AOE spells or aren't willing to use them, they could be in a lot of trouble. If they do use them... they get to have fun with them!

 

[Blue]

I've done combats with 20-30 opponents (using 13thAge mook rules), but never 100. For that I'd end up doing swarms if I really had to play out the combat by normal rules, but otherwise I'd abstract it to "a horde of quicklings" and run it as a Challenge.

Mook rules are related to 4e minion rules. Basically a mook is about 1/5th of a normal creature in terms of HPs and damage, but more importantly shares a single pool of HPs and you just remove a combatant every X HPs. So you might end up killing several with one crit - just describe the narrative of it cleaving through one and impaling the next. It makes big attacks and area of effect very efficient since there's no overkill - which is what you want to go heroically cleaving through a horde.

Who remembers the AD&D 1st edition rule about getting a number of attacks equal to your level for fighters against a horde, buried deep in one of the books like the Bard class?

 

[Quickleaf]

Hello

I'm currently running a large dungeon from 2nd ed (The Gates of Firestorm Peak) and I'm converting it to 5e. It's been going well so far (it's a good adventure, with only a few small errors) and in general converting from 2nd ed to 5e is not very difficult, although there is one problem – cannon fodder. Because of bound accuracy, cannon fodder is more dangerous in 5e – even a lowly goblin has +4 to hit, while in 2nd ed they would have the equivalent of +1 or even +0 to hit.

The party has passed a major milestone, and I am getting the next segment ready. There is one big battle happening soon-ish, and there is even a big map printed for it as part of the adventure (imagine a long 20 foot wide corridor with a few obstacles and *lot* of side passages). And well... it's 95% cannon fodder, and I'm not quite sure how to run this properly in 5e.

The party members are all level 6 and consist of a paladin (ancient), cleric (knowledge), warlock (tome/old ones) and monk (fist), along with 2 semi-useful NPCs

The foes: one HUNDRED gibberlings. The gibberlings are basically demented angry humanoid, think the tasmanian devil from loony tunes, with the fighting power of a goblin. Individually, they are very weak, but there are so many of them. There are a few brood gibberling (tougher gibberlings that can spit brain slugs at people) but 95% of them are the "regular" kind.

I'm familiar with Gates of Firestorm Peak, and I believe you're referring to Encounter #71 in the Twisted Caverns which uses this map?

How do you run a horde of weak creatures and have the challenge work? I see potential problems here:

1: if I "convert" the to hit number, with so many incoming attacks the PCs are going to take a lot of damage. Combine this with any sort of pack tactic (pushing, shoving, grappling etc) and it's going to get super messy and potentially TPK territory

2: However, if the cleric casts spirit guardian, the area of effect damage will obliterate any gibberling that comes into range – even if they make their save, most of them will die from the damage due to low HP. The rest of the party will easily be able to mop up the few that manage to make it through.

3: Killing 100 monsters seems tedious (I intend to have many of them run away when it becomes obvious that they can't win).

Any advice on making this battle fun/interesting would be welcome

Thanks!

Reading through the original encounter's writeup, it seems clear that the players are intended to devise ways to slow down / halt / minimize the number of gibberlings able to reach them. I make this assertion based on text like:

• "a large bonfire can hold gibberlings at bay for 1d4+1 rounds"
• "the party might very well determine that their best option concerning this room is to merely run for their lives"
• "If the PCs manage to barricade themselves behind a sturdy door or something similar, the gibberlings batter upon it for 1d10 rounds before losing interest"
• "Groups of 12 gibberlings fight together"

I believe the intention of the original is that your problem #1 is actually a feature intended to encourage out-of-the-box strategic thinking. So in addition to the mechanical advice you've already received, I'd suggest reframing the challenge from "kill 100 gibberlings" to "defining how/where/when the battle occurs in order to survive it." That's a much more holistic view.

For example, spirit guardians is a worthwhile tactic if the PCs have clustered together; it's situations like this that the spell is meant for, and the cleric should get a chance to shine. However, after the angelic spirits flitting about the party kill the first 12 or so gibberlings, the gibberlings are going to change things up. Maybe they start throwing rocks or bone javelins? Maybe they start bashing the floor around the PCs, ruining it and dropping the PCs into a lower level of the surrounding cavern? (after all, the fact that the area is already ruined could serve as foreshadowing) Maybe they have a maddening wail that forces Concentration checks or imposes the frightened condition? Maybe they back off momentarily, but continue to stalk the PCs through the dungeon, lurking in the shadows, periodically testing the spell's radius at opportune moments? Maybe the broodmothers order the gibberlings to cause a cave-in at the far right side of the map, putting a time pressure on the PCs or making them come up with a way to dig out rubble before spirit guardians expires?

 

[Eltab]

- Use groups of 5 or 10 gibberlings, rather than 100 individuals. Each group does the same thing together. (Watching you take care of Team Monster's turn will be BO-RING if you don't.)
- As noted above, Minions are your friend. 1 HP each but normal AC.
- As noted above, many of the gibberlings can be concatenated into a swarm.
- Have a handful of "gibberling boss" foes. They do smart things, and hopefully the PCs will notice them as important keys to defeating the mob.
- If the PCs start steamrolling the encounter, have most survivors run away. They can show up again later, having led a powerful friend or two into the PCs' path.

 

[Oofta]

After a dozen or so gibberlings die at the hand of the spirit guardians, the monsters wise up and throw things or start collapsing the cave around the cleric. Maybe they start doing kamikaze runs, leaping at the cleric (and to their doom) carrying loaded barrels of oil and torches. They run away, hoping the group will spread out enough that they can ambush the guy in the rear. Several gibberlings come rushing forth holding a log between them, they ram the cleric pushing then into a pit trap. So on and so forth. Also, don't forget the bodies, after a while they'll pile up.

As far as attacks and defense, I'd use the mob rules from the DMG as someone else mentioned. I don't have my old books handy, and I don't remember the fluff for the beasties so apologies if I'm making them too tactical. But even creatures that are considered swarming brutes are going to have ways of holding off invaders.

The other suggestions are good as well, set up various challenges along the route that the group has to overcome.

 

[Harzel]

When in doubt, set everything on fire and see what happens.

Excellent advice, suitable for many situations.