D&D 5E Battlemaster and Superiority Dice are causing martials to suffer.

[Stormonu]

While I agree, I would point out that the game also benefits from having an expert in such things that is better at it than other martials. So, while I agree that the BM creates meta issues that negatively impact gameplay, I think it’s important to have in the game.

I would just say that any successful attack that succeeds by 5 or more, or is a crit, can do a manuver as part of the attack. If an attack against you fails by 5 or more, or is a nat 1, you can do a reaction maneuver (mostly a riposte obviously).

The BM can do manuevers on any successful attack, and add extra damage if they spend a die when doing so, because the die represents extra effort to execute the move perfectly or with particular ferocity, etc.

This way, the BM exists as the expert in tactical combat, but your barbarian can goad and trip and such without sacrificing damage.

That's pretty close to the route I went, though I made it 4 or more, and the extra bit (push, trip, etc.) uses up a bonus action (reduces the chance of spamming and slowing the combat down, for one thing). Battlemasters can do that, or just spend a die if they feel they need for it.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

The first is how if do it if I redid Weapon Properties and Masteries.

Anyone can use their attack to trip.
Anyone wielding a Reach weapon adds 5th to their reach.

Mastering a weapon with Pommel lets you trip and deal damage on a successful attack.

A Champion (its own class) has more Weapon Masteries and can have a large roster of weapon options. At level 5, a champion might have 4 weapon masteries and 2 fighting styles.

A Battlemaster (its own class) can get Mastery weapons additional Masteries and Properties. At level 5, a Battlemaster might have 2 weapon masteries and 1 fighting styles but their 2 mastered weapon have access to 1 extra Mastery each via Maneuvers.

I can see how that would work well.
I wonder if a risk die in place of a resource would work, as well.

That's pretty close to the route I went, though I made it 4 or more, and the extra bit (push, trip, etc.) uses up a bonus action (reduces the chance of spamming and slowing the combat down, for one thing). Battlemasters can do that, or just spend a die if they feel they need for it.

4 or more probably makes more sense mathematically, maybe even dropping it to 3 for some classes or at a certain level.

And yeah I think that’s a great use of Bonus Actions, though I’d say it also works to just say “once per turn”. Alt. maybe it’s only a BA if you don’t have a fighting style or mastery related to the weapon or type of weapon you’re using?

 

[Minigiant]

I can see how that would work well.
I wonder if a risk die in place of a resource would work, as well.

I don't think there should be a risk or resource die.

D&D's martial don't have offensive stamina. Attacks are curtailed by accuracy and investment

Weapon Properties are free
Weapon Masteries are a choice with limited range to invest
Maneuvers are are a choice with limited range to invest

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I don't think there should be a risk or resource die.

D&D's martial don't have offensive stamina. Attacks are curtailed by accuracy and investment

Weapon Properties are free
Weapon Masteries are a choice with limited range to invest
Maneuvers are are a choice with limited range to invest

It’s simply boring to always only have at-will capabilities with no way to “go all out” and burn some resources or take extra risk in order to get a bigger result.

It’s also nearly an axiom of game design that NOVA damage matters and a class with X DPR without nova capacity is weaker than a class with X DPR including nova capacity.

Martials shouldn’t be limited to only things that can be balanced for at-will use.

 

[Garthanos]

Conan (THE "Barbarian") a prototypical barbarian, regularly used "maneuvers" to win out. It would be lame if he needed a special reserve dice pool to do this.

Being able to do tricks dependent on surprise or trickery so enemy once they have seen them are resistant to them (fool me once) always made sense to me. But doing a super leap that strains a muscle til you let it relax and other things makes sense to me as well. Not limiting those maneuvers is an excuse to leave martials in the dirt.

Gygax considered/mentioned Conan a couple of times as the prototypical fighter and yet... I have heard other sources that seem to indicate EGG thought the movies made him out to be too tricky or clever for Gygax which seems kind of odd to me.

 

[Minigiant]

It’s simply boring to always only have at-will capabilities with no way to “go all out” and burn some resources or take extra risk in order to get a bigger result.

It’s also nearly an axiom of game design that NOVA damage matters and a class with X DPR without nova capacity is weaker than a class with X DPR including nova capacity.

Martials shouldn’t be limited to only things that can be balanced for at-will use.

Novaing should be class based

A Barbarian can burn a rage to Triple damage.
A Fighter can burn a Second Wind to perform a Weapon Grandmastery
A Champion has extra Action Surges
Ranger and Paladins have spells.

 

[TorgoTheWhite]

Being able to do tricks dependent on surprise or trickery so enemy once they have seen them are resistant to them (fool me once) always made sense to me. But doing a super leap that strains a muscle til you let it relax and other things makes sense to me as well. Not limiting those maneuvers is an excuse to leave martials in the dirt.

Gygax considered/mentioned Conan a couple of times as the prototypical fighter and yet... I have heard other sources that seem to indicate EGG thought the movies made him out to be too tricky or clever for Gygax which seems kind of odd to me.

Yeah, that is a little bit of weird duality.

 

[Steampunkette]

Allow me to gesture, broadly, toward A5e. Where all the Martial Classes get combat maneuvers and exertion equal to double their proficiency bonus per short rest to spend to power their maneuvers.

It's so much nicer than 2014 and 2024 to be a martial character in A5e. And it's not like you're even significantly stronger.

 

[Garthanos]

Allow me to gesture, broadly, toward A5e. Where all the Martial Classes get combat maneuvers and exertion equal to double their proficiency bonus per short rest to spend to power their maneuvers.

It's so much nicer than 2014 and 2024 to be a martial character in A5e. And it's not like you're even significantly stronger.

Yes the effective power of the A5e martials wrt each other and the 5e martials are fairly similar.