D&D General BBEGs shouldn't miss.

[Charlaquin]

The problem isn’t necessarily to hit bonus versus DC and damage. It can be other abilities in the game that were not accounted for. Teleportation, mirror image, counter spell, banishment, etc, movement abilites just to name a few. There are countless others. It’s not all about being a big bag of hp and simple attack versus dc.

I’m not sure I follow you. What does this have to do with information and agency?

 

[DEFCON 1]

I get that, absolutely! But, would the players be comfortable with you changing the results to help out the narrative? If yes, why hide the results? If no, why do it at all?

Yes they would, because they know I run my game to make it as fun and exciting and as interesting as I can for them.

As far as "hiding the results"... it's simply because part of the excitement of experiencing the story is not knowing how the sausage is made. The same way that when you are watching a movie you want to be engrossed in it and not constantly noticing the filmmaking processes that created it.

 

[zarionofarabel]

I’m not sure I follow you. What does this have to do with information and agency?

Well, the GM deciding what is supposed to be random invalidates the arrangement wherein the dice decides such things. I would feel as though this means the GM feels that they should have authority over me and my character that I didn't agree to give them. This, to me, would make me feel as though I have been robbed of the ability to make meaningful choices as it would cause me to lose confidence in the GMs ability to allow me to make meaningful choices.

 

[DEFCON 1]

I just don't see the point of introducing a random element to the narrative if you are going ignore said random element. Just choose the result you want and be honest about it.

As for "accidentally" killing a PC. Well, if you don't want that to happen then use a system where that can't happen. If it can happen because of the system you are using make sure the players are aware of that fact. If they whine about it later remind them that they were warned ahead of time that that was a possibility. If they still whine then they are being poor sports and should go play video games where they can reload any time they get a result they don't like.

The point is simple. The random element produces random events. I don't choose results because the randomness can potentially produce more interesting and exciting events that whatever I might come up with on my own.

And I never worry about "accidentally" killing PCs, because the PCs at my table are never killed accidentally. First off, because once the party reaches 5th level invariably there is someone in the party with a method for raising said person from the dead. Secondly... if someone just happens to drop to 0 and fail 3 death saves on some random, undramatic fight... there will usually be a way that I incorporate that scenario into the narrative to actually give it meaning. My player's PCs just don't die and then disappear from the narrative (unless of course the player wanted to make a new character, but that hasn't happened yet.) That sort of "You lose, start over" idea I threw out with AD&D because it is narratively unsatisfying to both myself and my players. If someone dies (either accidentally or because I went ahead and killed them via attacking them while unconscious for auto-death save fails)... their death will get incorporated into the narrative in some form or fashion.

Other people who play D&D combat like it's a board game to win or lose would absolutely say "Your character's dead, make a new one"... and for those tables I say great! If it works for you and your players, more power to you! But that's not my table. Because as people have heard me hit the drum here repeatedly... I care much more about the story than about the mechanics. The mechanics are there to provide interesting and variable events to play out, but are not the end all and be all of the game.

 

[Charlaquin]

Yes they would, because they know I run my game to make it as fun and exciting and as interesting as I can for them.

As far as "hiding the results"... it's simply because part of the excitement of experiencing the story is not knowing how the sausage is made. The same way that when you are watching a movie you want to be engrossed in it and not constantly noticing the filmmaking processes that created it.

If your players are cool with that, great! Y’all have fun the way you like. Just, you know, make sure they are indeed all cool with it, cause there are plenty of players out there who would not be. If you’re up front about the fact that you intend to change the result of dice rolls when you think it will make for a better narrative, and that you won’t be rolling in the open or disclosing when you change a roll, that gives players who think that sounds like a bad time the opportunity to leave before it can become a problem.

 

[Charlaquin]

Well, the GM deciding what is supposed to be random invalidates the arrangement wherein the dice decides such things. I would feel as though this means the GM feels that they should have authority over me and my character that I didn't agree to give them. This, to me, would make me feel as though I have been robbed of the ability to make meaningful choices as it would cause me to lose confidence in the GMs ability to allow me to make meaningful choices.

I’m completely lost. What does any of this have to do with my post?

 

[DEFCON 1]

If your players are cool with that, great! Y’all have fun the way you like. Just, you know, make sure they are indeed all cool with it, cause there are plenty of players out there who would not be. If you’re up front about the fact that you intend to change the result of dice rolls when you think it will make for a better narrative, and that you won’t be rolling in the open or disclosing when you change a roll, that gives players who think that sounds like a bad time the opportunity to leave before it can become a problem.

There is a reason why I've played with the same groups of people for years, and in some cases more than a decade. I know what I'm getting with them, they know what they are getting with me. We're fine.

 

[Zsong]

I’m not sure I follow you. What does this have to do with information and agency?

I’m dating that if a dm accidentally creates a cr+10 encounter I hope he fudges and makes the adventure fun and exciting instead of just declaring he made a mistake and come back next week when he gets it right.

 

[Helldritch]

I stopped rolling behind a screen a long long time ago in a far far .... ahem... (watching too much SW with my wife...)
Back on topic.
I never fudge. I never change any roll. I have a few screens around me (not in front of me) for a quick reference and everyone see every single rolls.
If a dragon comes up in an encounter, so be it. But the dragon might feel generous, especially if flattery is used on it. "Give me your valuables and magical items or else. Hooooo nice horses, i'll take them too. They'll make a good snack. And never come back this way again."

My players learned a long time ago (or learn very fast) that not every challenge can be won. Sometimes, the heroes die. Sometimes they are defeated but live to fight another day. And this is what is important. Knowing when to retreat. The vilain might defeat them, but that is where the "narrative" plot can shine. Who never read about the daring prison escape? Who never read about the vilain ranting about his plans!

A group can be TPK, it only forces the DM to bring them back in an unexpected way. A friendly group of NPC can recover their body and bring them back to life. A guard they had spared might open their cells for them to escape just to payback his debt. Possibilities are endless. No need to fudge.

As a player, I hate it when I have the feeling that the DM is fudging. Whether it is in my favor or not. I prefer to build a story with what fate gives me than having to follow the story a DM has written. Fudging make me think, as a player, that the DM is forcing "his" story upon. Whereas a DM that do not fudge, builds a story with his players.

 

[robus]

My own problem with BBEGs in those types of fights is that I invariably roll something in the low single digits for Initiative, and the BBEG has lost any chance of taking control of things before their first turn.

I basically give BBEGs a big bonus to their initiative or just lock it in at a high level. Learned the hard way that the dice don’t ensure an exciting final showdown.