D&D 5E Bear Riders, Griffon Cavalry, etc.

[Hussar]

Is that dpr estimate accurate though? Mount attack bonuses don't increase as you level. Is a bear really adding that much damage once you start climbing the enemy food chain?

 

[I'm A Banana]

Yeah, Bounded Accuracy, so there's all AC at all levels (CR 22 Illithich from Volo's has an AC of 17, forex). Everything can hit everything these days, high levels don't make you untouchable. Besides, the intent is that the brown bear should be contributing to combat! If it just becomes a pointless whiff machine, it's not doing a very good job of making you feel like you're BEAR CAVALRY!

And class levels seem like a decent starting point, but it still seems too potent. How many levels are infinite action-free fireballs worth? Man, I don't even know that 20 is enough. A 20th-level barbarian has something like 35 natural DPR in a rage. That starts to line up with a boy and his bear (boy attacks twice with a greataxe, plus the bear, for about 32 DPR), so you know, congrats on level 20, here is your bear, campaign's over now!

 

[77IM]

Well remember that when you give up levels, you also give up hit points and proficiency bonus. So you become a sort of glass canon -- a boy standing behind a bear hoping not to get hit.

 

[Harzel]

Here's an idea. If the pet monster is adding a pile of damage and hit points -- maybe it's worth levels?

Simplest system I can think of: When you get enough XP to level up, instead of taking a level in a class, you can get a monster-friend of CR1 or lower. Each time you get enough XP to level up again, you can gain another class level, or increase your monster friend's CR by 1. Your monster's CR can't exceed 1/2 your level. (Numbers are SWAGs and should be reviewed for balance.)

So I sort of become Fighter 2 / Bear 1? Interesting. I am now kind of a composite character.

 

[Leatherhead]

Howabout you just remove the subclass option, and give them a bear instead?
It's a hack job, but provided you keep some ways of scaling the mount, it should be ok.

Also you should consider the problems of large beasts in combat, namely space.

 

[Lehrbuch]

These are all fascinating Ideas, but I'm not sure they're addressing ...
It's like one third-level spell each round for the entire day. That's not exactly something that can fit in a feat, and it's not well-balanced by gold costs or high requirements.

I would do the following (long to write, but relatively simple to play):

a) Make it a Feat to have an animal companion like this.

b) The Feat wouldn't be tied to a specific animal, but acquiring the animal would need to explained. This might be something as complicated as requiring an Adventure to get a Griffon egg, or as simple as spending gold at The Amazing Emporium during downtime. If the animal gets killed it can be replaced by another one, likewise acquired in whatever is deemed an appropriate manner at the time. The DM (negotiated to an extent with the player) needs to use judgement as to what can be acquired and the methodology appropriate to that creature. Sometimes, the PC might get acquire the animal first and then "train it" --- i.e. get the Feat --- at a later date/level.

c) Out of combat the animal can be instructed to do things. The PC has to make an Animal Handling (Wisdom) roll against a DC set by the DM according to the task complexity. If it is something that the animal would perceive as "risky", then the roll is at Disadvantage. If it is something that the animal would naturally do anyway, then the roll is at Advantage. If the task requires the animal to remember what it is doing over an extended time period, then the animal must make an Intelligence Saving Throw against a DC of 10 to stay on task. DM judgement as to whether this is required and how frequently the saves need to be made.

d) In combat the PC can choose to:

1) Use the animal as a Controlled Mount (following normal criteria and rules).

2) Take an Action to command the animal to attack an enemy. The PC must make an Animal Handling (Wisdom) roll against a DC that is 10 + 5 for every size category that the enemy exceeds the animal. So, if the animal and enemy are both medium the DC is 10, if the animal is medium and enemy is large the DC is 15, etc. If the animal exceeds the size category of the enemy, then the DC is 5. If the CR of the animal is more than double the enemy, then the roll is with Advantage. If the CR of the enemy is more than double that of the animal, then the roll is with Disadvantage. If the roll fails, then the command fails, and the animal may flee (see below). If the roll succeeds, then the animal attacks the enemy (and will take Opportunity Attacks against the enemy) until either the enemy is dead, a new command is issued, or the animal flees (see below).

3) Take a Bonus Action to command the animal to move somewhere within the animal's movement range, with the animal taking a Dash Action if needed. The PC has to make an Animal Handling (Wisdom) roll against DC 10 if the whole movement path for the animal is within line of sight of the PC and the animal. DC 15, if the PC cannot see the whole movement path, or if the animal cannot see the whole movement from the beginning. If the movement will place the animal somewhere it would perceive as "risky", then the roll is at Disadvantage. If the roll fails then the animal may flee.

4) Take a Bonus Action to command the animal to do a Special Move. This requires no roll, and always succeeds. During a Long Rest period (both animal and PC must be taking the Long Rest), the animal can be taught a new Special Move. The animal can remember its Int modifier number of Special Moves (minimum of 1). Teaching a new Special Move might require forgetting an old one. The content of a Special Move is negotiated with the DM, includes things like "play dead", "retrieve an item", "pull a lever".

5) If a command roll is failed, or the animal has less than half hit points and takes any damage, then it makes a Flee roll. This is a Wisdom Save (for the animal) against a DC of 10. If the Save is failed it flees (DM picks where). If fleeing isn't possible for some reason it attacks the nearest enemy.

 

[CapnZapp]

These are all fascinating Ideas, but I'm not sure they're addressing the big thing in the middle which is this

I saw what you did there

 

[CapnZapp]

I think I would give up any attempt to make it into a game feature (like a feat, or class feature option).

It simply will never be balanced. Unless you balance it, where it will never be cool.

Simply accept that riding a bear at low level IS and WILL hog more than your fair share of the spotlight (do more than your share of the damage, impress more than your share of the ladies etc)

The solution is not to balance the elephant: "wait until level 10; here's a mastiff in the meanwhile" sucks; "perhaps it's a small elephant (that does mastiff damage)?" might be balanced but also completely defeats the purpose.

The solution is instead to ask the OTHER PLAYERS:
a) is it okay that Bob the Elephant-Rider is riding an actual elephant?
If yes, there is no problem

If no, we get to the big one
b) what can I give you guys? Remember I just gave Bob a frikkin' Elephant!

I mean, D&D isn't exactly short of things to be generous with.

Perhaps Sue wants a flying castle. And Pete wants a sword that just happens to be a soulsucking demon. And so on.

It's only when the party expects a down to earth campaign (at low levels) there's a problem. And even then there's no real problem, because such campaigns don't hand out frikkin Elephants to individual characters!

In the grim and gritty version, the Elephant has a mind of its own, and it's probably a sadistical mofo. It poops on everybody it can, driving the party from town to town. It's probably stomped Lord Belfrey's prize goat, and now men at arms are looking for them everywhere they go. If they try to ditch the Elephant, it doesn't muck about. Instead, it easily finds them and demands to be entertained.

Sure the goblins aren't as much of a problem in this campaign, but is it really worth it when the party realizes who the real hero is, and who's getting all the xp...?

 

[Dausuul]

I agree with what a couple people have suggested: Multiclassing seems like the model to use here. Instead of investing levels in a class, you invest them in your mount. The question is how to evaluate the power of a mount, and make it scale appropriately.

Working on some estimates... I suspect CapnZapp may be right and there just isn't a workable way to do this, but I'm not about to give up without trying.

 

[Dausuul]

All right, after crunching a few numbers, here's a very rough sketch of how one might go about this. I'm sure it's nowhere near perfectly balanced, but it should be in the ballpark.

BEAST LORD: Prestige Class
Requirements: You must be at least 5th level to take levels in Beast Lord.
Notes: Use the normal multiclassing rules. Levels in Beast Lord don't give you additional hit points.

You gain the allegiance of a beast companion, which travels with you and fights alongside you. The companion adds your character level to its hit points, and its attack bonus is equal to your proficiency bonus plus your highest ability modifier. Otherwise, it has the statistics of a normal creature of its type.

If your companion dies, you can call a new one after a long rest. In addition, once per day, you can cast revivify on your companion without needing material components.

Each time you gain a level in this class, you gain the ability to call more powerful companions. At the DM's option, you may also improve an existing companion to use the stats of a more powerful creature. For instance, a Beast Lord with a black bear companion could give it the stats of a brown bear upon reaching level 2.

Level 1 Companions: Black bear, giant poisonous snake
Level 2 Companions: Brown bear, dire wolf, giant spider, tiger
Level 3 Companions: Giant constrictor snake, pegasus
Level 4 Companions: Griffon, hell hound
Level 5 Companions: Elephant
Level 6 Companions: Red dragon wyrmling