D&D 5E Bear Riders, Griffon Cavalry, etc.

[I'm A Banana]

The goal here is to give a character a friggin' monstrous creature, loyal to them, that they can ride around on and fight alongside.

The question is: how? How to do it in a reasonably balanced way?

The closest mechanic in the existing game is the ranger's animal companion and, let's face it, that's not gonna cut it. Medium only, and the critter needs to be weak.

I've thought about treating them like a "magic item," but this seems a little outside of PC control - if my character wants to ride a griffon, and wants to take class features that reasonably assure that, that should be okay.

It's too big for a feat - having a friggin' dire wolf fight alongside you is a lot more than a +2 Strength.

I don't necessarily want to tie it to class, either, though I'd entertain the idea of multiple classes. Like, griffon cavalry is pretty Fighter-y, but riding around on a giant eagle? Or a giant elk? More ranger or barbarian territory.

Summoning spells (and spells like Planar Ally) give me a rough sense, but I'd like non-spellcasters to access it...

I'd also want it to be reasonably character-defining, so it should be something that you can do from a *fairly* low level. Though no one's gonna start play with a bear they can ride.

So how might you thread this needle?

 

[Sunseeker]

Well, there ought to be a component in every part of the game, so.....
There should be a skill requirement. Ride X and Handle Animal Y.
There should be a feat component, this limits it to level 4 for all non-humans.
There should be a social component, IE: requiring your character to be a member of good standing with X group who ride the creature of the player's interest.
There should be a gold cost. Animal upkeep aside, becoming a member and paying for the privilege of riding one of these mighty steeds shouldn't come cheap.
There should be animal upkeep. Feeding, grooming, healing, equipping, training, etc... and some of these things should lead to the animal leveling up (more HD, better attack bonus, special feature, etc...) but mounts don't gain XP, players have to spend downtime training and caring for their friend.
There should be an alignment component.

That's how I'd do mounts. And it's not that I want to make it an unreasonable challenge for players, but I want them to see their animal companion as a loyal friend and ally, and a worthwhile investment, not as just another +power badge to wear.

 

[ammulder]

How's it going to work in practice if this person is a member of a party, only they're riding a Griffon? Or, what do they do when nearing or entering town and they're riding a wolf/bear?

I guess what I'm getting at is, is this really supposed to be a continuous thing? And does it need to be available to everyone in the party such that they can still BE a party?

My next question would be, is Mounted Combatant a prerequisite? Or do you figure that's only if you want the cherry on top?

 

[ccs]

I'd make it a feat. The type of creature would depend upon your Prof. bonus.

 

[Hussar]

The problem with basing it off Proficiency bonus means that you're basically tying mounts to character level. And that doesn't make a huge amount of sense. I shouldn't need to be a 10th level character to ride an elephant, for example.

I suppose that you could tie the action economy together. Controlling a monstrous mount in combat, for example, might tie up your concentration "slot". Getting hit and losing concentration might cause the mount to act erratically until you can regain control (which is where your handle animal checks come in). Considering that monstrous mounts might just eat the rider from time to time, this could have some serious consequences. Or, if they are bigger mounts, they might trample allies, or fly away, removing your character from combat until you regain control.

Not sure if that's enough of a drawback to balance out the advantages of having the extra movement and extra attacks, but, it might be. Sure, you get all those cool goodies, but, someone tags you with an attack, you fail a Concentration check, and now your mount is out of control. Regaining control might be a Handle Animal check with a DC=the Concentration check DC.

A simple random table for losing control might look like this, with new checks made each round until the mount is controlled again:

1. Mount rears and bucks. Acrobatics check=Concentration Check DC to remain mounted.
2. Mount is Frightened. Will move away at best possible speed.
3. Mount randomly lashes out at nearby targets.
4. Mount bites rider.
5. Mount attempts to scrape rider off.

Or something like that. Won't come up all the time, but, could come up often enough to be significant.

 

[ccs]

The problem with basing it off Proficiency bonus means that you're basically tying mounts to character level. And that doesn't make a huge amount of sense. I shouldn't need to be a 10th level character to ride an elephant, for example.

So don't put elephants that high on the chart.

 

[I'm A Banana]

These are all fascinating Ideas, but I'm not sure they're addressing the big thing in the middle which is this:

If you travel alongside a dire wolf, and it fights alongside you, you're dealing +10 damage/round. With a brown bear (for BEAR CAVALRY!), it's +19 DPR. Even one of Hannibal's elephants clocks in at +22 DPR.

Like, raging barbarian at level 3 is doing about 10 DPR over the course of an 18-round adventuring day (ignoring, for the moment, stuff like Great Weapon Master). Just some Bob The Bear-Buddy With A Greataxe is doing 25 DPR, what with that bear next to him (who is also a handy soak for HP and attacks). That's fireball damage (this seems born out by Conjure Animals, a 3rd-level spell that lets you summon two brown bears for an hour if you maintain concentration, but notably doesn't let you summon an elephant, and you can't do it every round).

It's like one third-level spell each round for the entire day. That's not exactly something that can fit in a feat, and it's not well-balanced by gold costs or high requirements.

How do we bring Bob the Bear Buddy (or Ellie the Elephant Queen) in line with the damage that a raging barbarian can put out?

This seems to point to Ranger-style "giving up your actions to let your ally attack," but woof to that.

....maybe we gotta make custom "for PC's" monster stats? (Also kind of woof)

....maybe there is no real answer and these creatures will always have to be NPC's who eat up XP and can never become an option the PC's can take?

 

[77IM]

Can we agree that if everyone in the party has a pet monster of roughly equivalent power that they are all roughly balanced?

 

[The Myopic Sniper]

I hate to mention it since it was a mechanic I didn't like the way it ended up in 3E... but this sounds like a Prestige Class.

 

[77IM]

Here's an idea. If the pet monster is adding a pile of damage and hit points -- maybe it's worth levels?

Simplest system I can think of: When you get enough XP to level up, instead of taking a level in a class, you can get a monster-friend of CR1 or lower. Each time you get enough XP to level up again, you can gain another class level, or increase your monster friend's CR by 1. Your monster's CR can't exceed 1/2 your level. (Numbers are SWAGs and should be reviewed for balance.)