Beating invisibility

[Mystery Man]

Well not really, just making it more challenging. The sorcerers in my group are starting to gain in levels and power and I just know (seeing proof of it already) will use invisibility to death. I don't have a problem with this at all but I don't want them to put all of their eggs in one basket, or at least help them to avoid doing so. I operate under the philosophy of "you live by the pass, you die by the pass" <---football analogy some non sports fans may not get. Using terrain, environment and other factors I could use some suggestions as to how to make the game interesting and challenging for the "unseen" as it were.

And just to give you an idea as to some upcoming factors IMC refer to this thread as to where they're heading.

As always, thanks in advance.

 

[hong]

Invisibility isn't so bad in a combat situation, since you pop up as soon as you attack. It's improved/greater invis that's the bear. Me, I just banned that one. Too much hassle to work around it.

 

[Mystery Man]

It's improved/greater invis that's the bear. Me, I just banned that one. Too much hassle to work around it.

That's the one that one of the sorcerers has. Last session they were involved in a rumble with a black dragon, since they were ankle deep in swamp muck and none of them thought to fly (not buying any potions or anything, I won a bet with myself on that one) it wasn't hard for the black to discern where he was. They beat him anyway, he wasn't all that tough but I can see this being a pain in the future.

 

[Calico_Jack73]

Here is what you do...

For a "scripted" encounter you draw out a map of the encounter and make a copy for each player who might be turned invisible. Once they are invisible they won't be able to see each other so you need to start tracking their movement separately so that they can't see where each of the other invisible party members are located. You'll have them make marks on their sheet which they'll hand to you and you'll note their locations on your master sheet. The first time someone uses an area effect spell and nails one or two invisible comrades they'll start to feel the pinch of running around invisible.

Also, a smart villain might create a pressure plate trap that casts Faerie Fire on everyone in the area or disperses Dust of Appearance for a non-druidic solution.

Edit: If a Beholder nails an area with it's Anti Magic cone it'll drop their invisibility spells. Anything with tremorsense won't be phased in the least.

Area Effect... Area Effect... Area Effect.

 

[Astros]

There are tons of spells that bypass invisibility. See invisibility, invisibility purge, etc. No good NPC should be unprepared. Invis/and greater are still just glamers, so certain mosnters see right through them (like undead). Dont forget dragons have keen senses and sometimes blindsight or tremorsense which can pinpoint an invisible foe. Detect magic also can detect the invis caster if you concentrate enough. They didn't dissapeare from the world, so they still make noise when they cast/sneeze/walk. A good listen check can go a long way. Dust of appearance or glitterdust can negate an invisible foe quite easily.

Do not make the mistake of saying "oh thats too powerful, I ban it." or "i cant beat it".

Your NPC's are NOT stupid all the time, and they have their own resources. If a PC causes a major problem for them, they simply have those anti-invis spells prepared or on items.

 

[Feyd Rautha]

By the time a character gets invisibility, there should be NPCs with see invisibility, invisibility purge, faerie fire, high spot/listen, tremorsense, dragonsight, etc. that they are fighting. All of these things negate invisibility.

Would I remove it from the game? Lord no! That is rather extreme, Hong, and I'd ask that you reconsider...if not just for the fact that you can use it on them . Really though. Invisibility is a class skill and a big part of some characters. Just tailor the villans accordingly. Rule that Obscuring Mists take the miss chance down to 20% (which it does anyway), develop magical "faerie fire" stones that burst faerie fire when tossed, have your low level mages pick up glitterdust or see invisibility, have Fighter NPCs pick up blindfighting (one of the first feats a drow would get anyway because they fight in their darkness), and so on and so forth.

They wouldn't have put it in the game if it wasn't balanced out by 1000 other things. All it means is that you have to flex your DM muscles a little sometimes in order to make things challenging. Don't forget to let them be successful when they should be though. Every city watchman or generic guard isn't going to suddenly develop a very keen "invisisense"... Yeah...sometimes they'll get away with it.

Peace.

 

[hong]

Would I remove it from the game? Lord no! That is rather extreme, Hong, and I'd ask that you reconsider...if not just for the fact that you can use it on them .

I am quite able to kill PCs without having to rely on invisibility.

 

[Ozmar]

Invisibility isn't so bad in a combat situation, since you pop up as soon as you attack. It's improved/greater invis that's the bear. Me, I just banned that one. Too much hassle to work around it.

Hmmm...
see invisibility
blindsight
deeper darkness (everyone is "invisible")
blindsense
scent
really high spot bonuses and listen bonuses
glitterdust
environment: thick mud, standing water, snow, layer of dust, room filled with cobwebs, bead curtains, rain, lots of bells on strings, etc...

I also really like the idea of keeping players ignorant of the precise positions of their invisible companions. Makes communication and coordination a more interesting challenge.

I would use any/all of the above rather than banning greater invisibility. I just don't feel that invisibility in general represents an insuperable obstacle. My current sorcerer makes liberal use of invisibility and greater invisibility, and casts see invisibility daily. Yet I still spend less than half our fights invisible, often b/c I don't want to waste the spell if I feel we can take down our enemies quickly or if another spell will be more useful. Like last night we were ambushed by an invisible lich. I saw him, but couldn't warn the party or stop the lich before he blasted us. So the next round, rather than turn invisible myself, I just grappled him with telekinesis. That worked so well that I spent the whole battle using that spell. I never had time to turn invisible. The duration of those spells (1 rd/lvl for greater and 1 min/lvl for the lesser version) means you don't spend all day invisible, so preparing the whole party to benefit is only practical if you are able to spend a minute preparing for a major battle. The rest of the time, greater invisibility is only useful to keep my sorcerer (at level 10, AC 12 and 43 hps and weak saves) alive and kicking. Its useful, but not a game-breaker (IME).

Ozmar the Invisible Sorcerer

 

[hong]

Hmmm...
see invisibility
blindsight
deeper darkness (everyone is "invisible")
blindsense
scent
really high spot bonuses and listen bonuses
glitterdust

Indeed, isn't it great how getting rid of greater invis means no longer having to worry about finding ways to nerf it?

 

[Ozmar]

... Invis/and greater are still just glamers, so certain mosnters see right through them (like undead). ....

What?! Is this for real? That's a surprise to me.

*walks off to check the SRD*

Ozmar the Uncertain