Beating invisibility

[Pielorinho]

Encounters with dragons? Not so much of a problem: dragons have blindsense, meaning they can pinpoint an enemy within 60' (although the enemy still has total concealment). Breath weapons aren't subject to miss chances.

One possible houserule that I'd suggest is that when you're grappling with an invisible opponent, you're not subject to miss chances, even if you use light weapons to attack. This seems like a pretty natural idea to me.

Monsters facing invisible creatures ought to ready an action, to attack the source of any evidence of the invisible creature. This evidence can take the form of a fireball bead's source, an arrow's source, or even the source of the chanting noise (although this requires a listen check).

Finally, you can let smarter monsters be creative. They might spin a rope around their head, gaining a touch attack (with no miss chance) on anyone within 15' or so; if they succeed at the touch attack, the rope bends around the invisible character, momentarily revealing the square they're in. They might throw a handful of dust in an arc similar to that of the burning hands spell, similarly revealing the location of an invisible opponent for one round (not by dust adhering to the opponent, but by the absence of dust in one square). A wineskin opened and spewed around might have a similar effect.

Don't use such tricks all the time, but occasional use of them can keep encounters fresh and exciting.

Daniel

 

[Mystery Man]

For a "scripted" encounter you draw out a map of the encounter and make a copy for each player who might be turned invisible. Once they are invisible they won't be able to see each other so you need to start tracking their movement separately so that they can't see where each of the other invisible party members are located. You'll have them make marks on their sheet which they'll hand to you and you'll note their locations on your master sheet. The first time someone uses an area effect spell and nails one or two invisible comrades they'll start to feel the pinch of running around invisible.

That would be one of those things I wish I thought of.

 

[maddman75]

Scent is the great equalizer for invisibility. IMC, nearly every guard post will have a few dogs, just in case someone iwth a couple wizard levels presumes to sneak in. And I've had a invis-happy sorcerer get suprised by walking into a cave full of dire apes. While they couldn't see him, they could surely smell where he was at.

 

[Ozmar]

What?! Is this for real? That's a surprise to me.

*walks off to check the SRD*

Ozmar the Uncertain

Yeah... methinks you're laboring under a misconception here, Astros. Undead are immune to mind-affecting effects, which include charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects. Glamers, however, are not mind-affecting, and I don't see anything that suggests that undead are immune to them.

Can you show me if I am wrong in this reading?

Thanks!
Ozmar the Curious

 

[Calico_Jack73]

Hmmm...
environment: thick mud, standing water, snow, layer of dust, room filled with cobwebs, bead curtains, rain, lots of bells on strings, etc...

How about a room filled with green slime or yellow mold. Also, how about a room filled with pressure plate traps that dump green slime onto the characters. Make one Reflex save to avoid the trap and failing that they have to make another to avoid the splash of green slime.

 

[Ozmar]

Indeed, isn't it great how getting rid of greater invis means no longer having to worry about finding ways to nerf it?

Uhm... yeah. I guess if that's the game you want to play. Me, I'm happy playing D&D with all the spells. Strangely, I don't have any trouble or worry with finding ways to "nerf" greater invis b/c its never been an issue in my games. I guess all the common counters to greater invis (I listed just a few) make it a useful, but hardly broken or overpowering, spell. I mean, I don't setup encounters thinking "Darwi has invisibility, so I'll need to give this hobgoblin a potion of see invisibility", but I find that on average, between a third and half the monsters have ways to contend with invisible things, and the smarter ones usually do have a potion or an ability or some tactic to fall back on. After all, there are a few invisible critters out there, and anyone concerned with meeting a level 5 wizard or an invisible stalker would take reasonable precautions within their abilities.

Still, whatever floats your airship in your own campaign. I've just never seen the need in mine.

Later!
Ozmar the Agreeable

 

[hong]

Finally, you can let smarter monsters be creative. They might spin a rope around their head, gaining a touch attack (with no miss chance) on anyone within 15' or so; if they succeed at the touch attack, the rope bends around the invisible character, momentarily revealing the square they're in. They might throw a handful of dust in an arc similar to that of the burning hands spell, similarly revealing the location of an invisible opponent for one round (not by dust adhering to the opponent, but by the absence of dust in one square). A wineskin opened and spewed around might have a similar effect.

... or you could just, you know, ban greater invis. If a tactic requires going outside the rules framework in this way to overcome, that's a pretty good sign there's a problem. After all, you don't have to "be creative" to work out a solution to fireball, mirror image, stoneskin, or a million other spells. Why this one?

 

[Mystery Man]

Simmah dahn nah!

Looking for advice, not a flame war. Easy does it now.


goooooz frah baaaaahhh.....

 

[Ozmar]

... or you could just, you know, ban greater invis. If a tactic requires going outside the rules framework in this way to overcome, that's a pretty good sign it's broken. After all, you don't have to "be creative" to work out a solution to fireball, mirror image, stoneskin, or a million other spells. Why only this one?

Hong, you don't need to go outside the rules framework to overcome invisibility. We've already seen dozens of counters, within the strict guidelines of the established rules, that immediately counter invisibility. You don't need to "be creative" (although it helps) to use:

see invisibility, blindsight, blindsense, tremorsense, invisibility purge, glitterdust, faerie fire, or true seeing.

So, while I completely respect and support your freedom to play your game the way you like it, I am just pointing out that your contention that invisibility is somehow the "only spell" that requires someone to go outside the rules framework to counter, is incorrect. You do not have to go outside the rules to counter invisibility.

Ozmar the Observant

 

[Pielorinho]

... or you could just, you know, ban greater invis. If a tactic requires going outside the rules framework in this way to overcome, that's a pretty good sign there's a problem. After all, you don't have to "be creative" to work out a solution to fireball, mirror image, stoneskin, or a million other spells. Why this one?

Because staying in the framework of the rules isn't a priority for myself or my gaming group.

Example: last night in our Arcana Unearthed game, a bad guy cast a Muddy Ground spell to limit our ability to attack him--anyone stepping into the mud was likely to slip and fall. With the DM's permission and with an action die (we get 3-4 per session), I flipped an alchemist's fire into the middle of the muddy patch and in the same round cast Fire Burst on it (like a low-level fireball, only it requires a pre-existing flame at the center of the AoE), in order to dry out the mud for one round. The DM happily let this work, and my allies were able to cross the muddy ground without incident.

I'm all about creative solutions to problems--not just Invisibility, but all problems in games.

Daniel