Because I couldn't resist a good flame war - the programming language debate

[Steven2k7]

I'm planning on going to college, or a technical school.

I have enugh parts to put together a half decent computer to put linux on. where can I download it?

 

[der_kluge]

I'm planning on going to college, or a technical school.

I have enugh parts to put together a half decent computer to put linux on. where can I download it?

Steven, you can start at www.linux.org or www.redhat.com

You can also buy it. Red Hat offers a version, and includes all printed manuals.

I think with regards to all the programming languages discussion, it's important to understand that most people on this planet don't understand everything there is to know about the field of computers. I correlate computers to medicine. Most doctor's specialize in specific areas, like heart surgeons, brain surgeons, or dermatologists.

Computer professionals do the same thing. My expertise is databases, and architecture. Other people go the programming route and become Java experts, or web developers, or UNIX administrators, or project managers. There is a lot to learn within each of those domains, so don't get frustrated if it seems overwhelming (it is). I would definitely recommend the college route over the tech school route, and just absorb as much stuff as you can. Heck, you might decide that you want to major in philosophy and drink RC cola and eat Moon Pies all day long, and there's nothing wrong with that!

I would almost recommend (and this is just me), avoiding the whole programming language thing until college. I tried learning some programming in high school, and without a formal teacher, I found it difficult. I would suggest putting together a computer and getting Linux installed and working. There's a ton of stuff that you can add into Linux, whole front-ends, and applications. You can actually get jobs in this world being a Linux expert, so it's certainly a worthwhile skill. Plus it will give you a foundation into UNIX which is a command-line operating system which runs most of the corporate world's computer systems. For example, every Wal-Mart store in this country has a UNIX machine running in the back room with multiple databases, which manage all the front-end activity. It's also the method by which all the home office systems send data tot he stores via its satellite network.

And I'm not sure I would suggest trying to get into game programming. Like the guy who brough that up said, it's a hugely demanding field, with little pay. Most game programmers are insanely smart (far smarter than I), and live on the west coast. They work upwards of 100 hours a week coding all day and all night. They put up with insane deadlines, and don't get paid overtime, or bonuses. Plus, once a project ends, the company might just as likely fire the entire team, as it would to give them a new game to work on. So, the industry is real fickle. You have to have an insane amount of math, and physics skills, not to mention low-level assembly programming skills, which are really, really hard to come by.

 

[Psionicist]

I think you should try programming for a while to see if you enjoy it. I "wrote" my first program 8 years ago in a language named QBASIC. I was 12 years old back then and although I didnt understand what the heck I was doing most of the time it was great fun, sometimes my changes to existing programs actually worked! A few years later I wrote my own programs in the C language. And here I am, still writing code for fun (and programming contests, and occasinally for uni) - it's a great stimulating hobby.

Which raises an important question. Do you want to learn something that will get you a job, or something fun you can do in your spare time?

 

[Alan Shutko]

Another thing you might look at after you dip your toes into programming is How To Design Programs. It's a book, freely available at the above site, which will take you through most of the concepts in designing and writing programs. It has an accompanying Scheme implementation, which has extra support for learning the language and going through the exercises.

Scheme isn't a language that sees much industry use these days, but it is a fully capable language and pretty much any concept in any language can be explored in Scheme. Once you've gone through Scheme, it'll be much easier to pick up any language as you need it.

(FWIW, I've done stuff in C, C++, Java, Perl, XML/XSLT, SQL, Scheme and other lisps, shell scripts, Javascript, Tcl/Tk, Python, x86 and M68k assembly, and a touch of PHP and other things.)

 

[drothgery]

Scheme isn't a language that sees much industry use these days, but it is a fully capable language and pretty much any concept in any language can be explored in Scheme. Once you've gone through Scheme, it'll be much easier to pick up any language as you need it.

Maybe in theory. In practice, functional programming languages (like Lisp and Scheme) are mind-bogglingly counter-intuitive to most people, and the only non-imperative language that's not a niche product outside of academia is SQL -- and almost every vendor's SQL extentions are designed to allow quasi-imperative behavior. Moreover, most widely used programming languages are derived from C or Basic (which are both on the same tree).

 

[smetzger]

Maybe in theory. In practice, functional programming languages (like Lisp and Scheme) are mind-bogglingly counter-intuitive to most people, and the only non-imperative language that's not a niche product outside of academia is SQL -- and almost every vendor's SQL extentions are designed to allow quasi-imperative behavior. Moreover, most widely used programming languages are derived from C or Basic (which are both on the same tree).

I agree. Scheme and Lisp are only good for weed out undergrad classes and theoretic academia.

I vote for C#, Java, or Delphi. Just get a book, a compiler, find an appropriate newsgroup, and go for it.