Beholders & Illithids and their "thralls"; how does that work out?

[Felon]

Been reading through the FR Underdark book recently, and I keep coming across numerous references to beholders and mind flayers lording over their slaves, having used their special abilities to create utterly loyal thralls that would glady die for their masters. I've wondered before about how this is supposed to work. Has has anyone else? The charm effects that these monsters use don't actually subjugate their targets, after all. As the DMG states, charming someone makes them your friend, not your flunky.

Considering that both beholders and illithids tend to loathe all other creatures, it's hard to imagine them making politie requests and treating their subjects like peers. I'd expect them to be quite openly abusive, and while I know that won't necessarily break the charm, the charm effect does mean that the subject will be comfortable telling his "dear friend" to take it easy and not to be such a bossy jerk all the time (which, of course, gets the thrall killded in short order). So, how does this master/slave dynamic actually work out the way you see it?

 

[reiella]

Either more conventional means, such as Threat of Mind Being Eatten.

Or, in a particularly valuable/useful slave, the illithid may actually use Thrall if they have a telepath with sufficent levels/power gem.

 

[Aluvial]

I have often wondered the same thing, and basically had to change the rules for these creatures.

They should be able to mentally compel their slaves to do their bidding, all of the charm rules prevent this, so you just have to wing it.

I think that the Illithid especially should have a special power for this, so in my game I gave them one.

I use the same Dominate saving throw, but once your hooked, your hooked. In my version, you pick 4 things from a list of 10 or 12 items, things that would give you another save. Things like jumping off a cliff or falling on your sword give you another save. If you fail, too bad.

For the PC, if you are captured, it is usually short term for the battle, the death of the master releases the slave. If the flayer manages to escape with the PC in this case, then its back to the drawing board for the player, I usually don't bother role-playing it out.

Aluvial

 

[Felon]

Either more conventional means, such as Threat of Mind Being Eatten.

Like I said, the thralls aren't merely bullied into submission. They're devoted, and that's supposedly accomplished through the monster's ability to charm monster at will.

I have often wondered the same thing, and basically had to change the rules for these creatures. They should be able to mentally compel their slaves to do their bidding, all of the charm rules prevent this, so you just have to wing it.

Personally, I always wondered why they never came up with an advanced illithid that has dominate person as a spell-like/psionic ability (elder brains notwithstanding).

 

[WayneLigon]

I've wondered before about how this is supposed to work. Has has anyone else? The charm effects that these monsters use don't actually subjugate their targets, after all. As the DMG states, charming someone makes them your friend, not your flunky. ... So, how does this master/slave dynamic actually work out the way you see it?

Read up on some real-life master-slave (you, in the back.. not the sexual kind, dumbo) dynamics. Some pretty simple things let normal humans enslave their own kind, creating behaviours in very short periods of time that seem utterly at odds with any form of rational thought. Look at the Elizabeth Smart case, or at various descriptions of cults and how they wear down a persons will to resist. Then there is Stockholm Syndrome, where people come to identify and sympathize with their captors. (Though that's probably not going to come into play with mind Flayers; they're too unlike the slaves. With Drow? Yeah, that's going to work.)

Charm makes them see you as a trusted ally and bestest buddy. The Mind Flayer has a pretty decent Cha so your normal human is likely to be blowing the oppossed Charisma checks to avoid doing non-suicidal things against his will. Thing like eat your child's brain, let the mind flayer mate with you, beat your best friend, kill that stranger, stuff like that. Of course, the memory of doing those things apparently of your own free will and liking them doesn't go away when the monster lets the charm fade.

Charm lets the mind flayer be your best pal. A best pal who is a sadistic, evil, hyper-intellegent monster who delights in your pain, confusion, misery and self-loathing. We've all known a friend-of-a-friend who's in a bad relationship and we all wonder 'well, why doesn't she just leave'? This is something like that; the charming effect is a one-way street.

It becomes, in some ways, a vastly more sick tool that Domination because it doesn't allow puppet-like control. There's that sense and memory of devotion and caring that comes with friendship. That more than anything will wear away at a person.

We have Detect Thoughts, an at-will power. It can know what you are thinking at any time, day or night. It can turn the power of your dreams against you. Use the names of family and friends, which it can learn with a few well-asked questions. (It's like 'Don't think of a white elephant'. Ooops. Sorry. Unless you have the concentration of a monk, you just thought of a white elephant. Same principle applies.) Any escape plan you think of, it knows, right then.

Then we have the Suggestion power, which lets the mind flayer gradually pick and pick at that barrier of what you will and will not do. Used over time, it's a gradual nudge here and there to get them used to doing horrible things, or used to obediance. It helps form patterns, and most people live by patterns.

Then we have simple pain and abuse. Your average PC hero probably isn't going to succumb to the starvation, pain, and constant abuse but most people will. These things wear people down in a shockingly short span of time, until, yeah, you'll do pretty much what you're told to do. Especially because you remember that suddenly this Thing can become your best friend on earth.

It cares for you, and likes you; it told you, and your best friend would never lie to you, would he? He tells you you're a worthless slave, so of course that's what you must be. He only beats you or drills holes in your head when you anger him. If you tried harder, if only you were not such a useless sack of dung, he wouldn't have to hurt you. Indeed, you are the one making him hurt you! It's your fault, you filthy useless thing. How dare you? You should be good. If you cared, you would be good. And we all want to be good, don't we? Of course we do.

That's just off the top of my head, and I'm not an Int 19 (which is the Int of the most basic, stupid, crummiest Mind Flayer) super-genius sadistic monster.

 

[Gez]

The above is sadly true (well, the stuff about real-life human psychology, anyway).

In addition, the statblock only describe things that are useful in combat. If beholders have a supernatural way to turn people into thralls, but it takes a full week rather than a standard action, or a handful of rounds, then there's no real point in listing it in the hard rules. Just say in the background fluff that they have ways to turn people into thralls.

 

[Ruvion]

Although that may well all be true Wayne, I would think that these alien abberations, namely the mind flayer, would be quite distant and too dispassionate to be involved in what I would call an "intimate relationship" (remember sadism is intimacy on a different tangent). If someone is to be involved in a master and slave relationship that you describe he would have to invest quite some time and energy just to properly bring a creature in line as a thrall. And I imagine there are many more thralls than Illithids in any given mind flayer community (barring the influence of an elder brain). Bottom line: I just don't see the super genius "superior than thou" alien-like creatures stooping to even bother doing such a thing for every single slave....Maybe just the special high level ones.

 

[RangerWickett]

Wow, this is creepy as hell. You so helped me get a nice sense of what the villainy of these bastards is like.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I like to give my Mind Flayers Leadership, and have their hierlings be the slaves, and their cohort be their bodyguard....of course, they got it through pure manaical manipulation, just like Wayne said. Mind Flayers aren't *that* alien.......humans just like to think they are, because it means that, deep down, they aren't like them, the don't do the same things, they don't have those same powers....of course not......humans never manipulate each other for vile ends......never...........

........every enduring monster is a representation of a human failing after all.....

 

[evileeyore]

I was gonna post something quick and witty, about how they use 'headology'...

Then I read WayneLigon's post.

Are you perchance writting an 'Ecology of...' about MindFlayers? You should consider it. That was pure evil genius.

Consider it yoinked.

--filing for later use, and giving props--EvilE