D&D General Ben Riggs interviews Fred Hicks and Cam Banks, then leaks WotC sales data.

[darjr]

I'd like to take a moment to remember Rob Weiland, like Ben and Fred and Cam do in the video.

Thread 'Gaming Journalist Rob Wieland Passes At Age 48'

Oct 13, 2025

It is with a heavy heart that we report the passing of Rob Wieland. As well as his weekly reviews column here at EN World, Rob's work could be found on Forbes, Geek & Sundry, and other outlets, as well as in tabletop RPG games such as Star Wars Saga Edition, World of Darkness supplements, Shadowrun, and Savage Worlds.

Rob passed away this weekend at the too-young age of 48, leaving behind a wife and a young daughter.

Rob was always a real pleasure to work with--he was professional, funny, and kind. He will be missed, and our thoughts are with his...

• Morrus
• Replies: 43
• Forum: *TTRPGs General

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In 2013 a year before 5e released D&D sales dropped down to $15.5 million. I saw his presentation at Gameholecon and, bombshell, he said it was so bad WotC went into negotiations to sell D&D to another entity. Note that's not in this interview, he's going to post that panel on his patreon.

Then to just before the pandemic D&D Sales hit $71.1 million! Ben has estimates that WotC, finally inclucing other third party licensing, which these do not other than DriveThru, it would reach well over $100 million.

Fred Hicks chimes in and talks about his experience in sales surges with Dresden Files and Monster of the Week. He even shares some numbers.
Gotta love Fred Hicks.

Both Fred and Cam speculate that Stranger Things and Critical Role season two seem to line up with some of the sales highs and the surge in growth of sales of D&D.

Per the video:
2014 sales were about 29m,
and similar for 2015 & 2016 (which is unusual as they typically goes down).
But then the sales double in 2017 and continue to go up each year.

 

[darjr]

I’m still listening. FYI.

 

[Scribe]

 

[dave2008]

About 26 min: D&D goes from 15.5 m to 71.1m from 2013 - 2019 (and mostly all RPG growth)

 

[darjr]

Lol! Your image comes up as the thumbnail for this thread!

 

[Distracted DM]

Some of this isn't news, because we've heard it from @mearls when he talked at cons etc. about how bad DnD was and how WotC was looking at licensing it out. But it's good to hear it from others, plus the new figures are interesting!

 

[dave2008]

Per the video:
2014 sales were about 29m,
and similar for 2015 & 2016 (which is unusual as they typically goes down).
But then the sales double in 2017 and continue to go up each year.

 

[darjr]

Some of this isn't news, because we've heard it from @mearls when he talked at cons etc. about how bad DnD was and how WotC was looking at licensing it out. But it's good to hear it from others, plus the new figures are interesting!

And people dispute him anyway. Hard numbers are harder to dispute.

 

[Zardnaar]

And people dispute him anyway. Hard numbers are harder to dispute.

They're not saying anything new.

Peak 5E was around 6 years. 2017-22/23

I adjusted for inflation it was approximately twice as long and twice as big as TSR peak.

 

[darjr]

Some of this isn't news, because we've heard it from @mearls when he talked at cons etc. about how bad DnD was and how WotC was looking at licensing it out. But it's good to hear it from others, plus the new figures are interesting!

Also I didn't know quite how much they were making off of Drive Thru. That kinda floored me. Made me think of how much must they be making from DNDBeyond... maybe.