D&D General Ben Riggs interviews Fred Hicks and Cam Banks, then shares WotC sales data.

[Reynard]

@Reynard i think you just want a different game. Cool. I don’t under stand why it needs the D&D label for you?

Again, this is a thing that happens every edition. Some people needed change with 2E --> 3E, and some resisted it (just as an example, it is the same every time). Everyone saying "why don't you play a different game?" are engaging in the same exact "my preferences are more important to me" that I am, along with everyone else that has said they are ready for a 6E.

"Why don't you play another game?"

Why don't you keep playing 5E -- especially since it is the most robustly supported edition ever and can continue to be since it is in the Commons -- and let us have our new edition of D&D. We are overdue as it is.

 

[darjr]

Again, this is a thing that happens every edition. Some people needed change with 2E --> 3E, and some resisted it (just as an example, it is the same every time). Everyone saying "why don't you play a different game?" are engaging in the same exact "my preferences are more important to me" that I am, along with everyone else that has said they are ready for a 6E.

"Why don't you play another game?"

Why don't you keep playing 5E -- especially since it is the most robustly supported edition ever and can continue to be since it is in the Commons -- and let us have our new edition of D&D. We are overdue as it is.

Who says other than WotC? And the fan base?

Also I’ve explained why I think it’s best D&D stay the same and why it should, outside of my personal preferences.

I’m just asking for the same courtesy.

Edit to add: I am playing other games. Maybe I’m mistaken but it seems you take the suggestion as an affront of some sort, from me it absolutely isn’t, just to be clear.

 

[Nikosandros]

Fifty years of module production and WotC STILL can't put actual usable information on a map. You get a map and a number that you have to reference somewhere in the book. Even basic information like the height of ceilings is never written on a map. To me, THAT would be innovation.

That's a great point. Furthermore, often the descriptions are not so clear and I have to jump back and forth between the map and the keys.

The one adventure that kinda innovated - Dragonheist - was routinely pilloried as being terrible for not being the same old same old.

Here I disagree. The criticism for DH is that it has an awesome premise and then basically squanders it in a boring and linear "scavenger hunt" without even using all the "lairs" of the villain's factions.

 

[Parmandur]

let us have our new edition of D&D. We are overdue as it is.

I mean, there is no "due" in the matter, the world is not "owed" a new variation on Dungeons & Dragons on some schedule. And nobody is stopping that, so itnis not a matter of "letting" anyone have it.

The only thing that matters in regards to there being a new variation of D&D is WotC business needs. They have espoused a stable, evergreen approach since before 5E launched...and now they have kept with thst to massive success. If they felt there would be greater commercial success in massive change, they would pursue that. However, given the recent success of an evergreen approach, the sunk cost of a very successful and growing D&D Beyond platform, and how big changes just fell flat for them before...don't see thst changing any decade soon.

 

[Clint_L]

For the past few years, WotC's communications on the game's future have been strikingly anti-innovative. They don't exactly frame it that way, but that's what they are doing by declaring that 5e is the system going forward, except now it is just "D&D", and any changes will be small and incremental. This is an inherently conservative strategy that makes sense, given that 5e has established such a broad footprint at the same time that brand awareness has skyrocketed, largely thanks to demongraphics (Gen X hitting middle age and raising kids) and to other media (actual plays, pop culture, etc.).

Which I am on board with: with I play D&D, I appreciate that I know what I am getting into. I also like playing other TTRPGs, and when I do I want them to be as different from D&D as possible! I love it when games innovate on everything from the GM/player relationship to how (and whether) randomness is incorporated. D&D is like my safe haven, though.

 

[Reynard]

Who says other than WotC? And the fan base?

Also I’ve explained why I think it’s best D&D stay the same and why it should, outside of my personal preferences.

I’m just asking for the same courtesy.

Edit to add: I am playing other games. Maybe I’m mistaken but it seems you take the suggestion as an affront of some sort, from me it absolutely isn’t, just to be clear.

I mean, there is no "due" in the matter, the world is not "owed" a new variation on Dungeons & Dragons on some schedule. And nobody is stopping that, so itnis not a matter of "letting" anyone have it.

The only thing that matters in regards to there being a new variation of D&D is WotC business needs. They have espoused a stable, evergreen approach since before 5E launched...and now they have kept with thst to massive success. If they felt there would be greater commercial success in massive change, they would pursue that. However, given the recent success of an evergreen approach, the sunk cost of a very successful and growing D&D Beyond platform, and how big changes just fell flat for them before...don't see thst changing any decade soon.

These discussions can sometimes veer into unintended arguments, so i just want to pause and reassert (for myself too) that I am just talking about my personal desire for a new D&D. If I have gotten a little defensive or demanding, it is probably because having that personal preference questioned can get a little exhausting -- which, of course, ironically means I get terse and sound like I am doing the same thing.

My point being: I want a new edition of D&D because I like how a new edition of D&D reinvigorates my interest in the game. Of course I would like that new edition to be the one in my head, or close to it, but that's a different issue. I am not in any way wishing that other folks don't have the D&D they want. But the neat thing about 5E now is that we can both have what we want. Hypothetically, of course.

it is absolutely true that WotC, as of now, does not appear to have any business reason to make a 6E. No one knows how successful 2024 has been, but my guess is that it is doing fine, and will do even better as folks finish up 2014 campaigns and such. That's all reasonable and good.

But I still want a new edition of D&D for those emotional, nostalgic reasons I have mentioned a few times.

 

[Zardnaar]

These discussions can sometimes veer into unintended arguments, so i just want to pause and reassert (for myself too) that I am just talking about my personal desire for a new D&D. If I have gotten a little defensive or demanding, it is probably because having that personal preference questioned can get a little exhausting -- which, of course, ironically means I get terse and sound like I am doing the same thing.

My point being: I want a new edition of D&D because I like how a new edition of D&D reinvigorates my interest in the game. Of course I would like that new edition to be the one in my head, or close to it, but that's a different issue. I am not in any way wishing that other folks don't have the D&D they want. But the neat thing about 5E now is that we can both have what we want. Hypothetically, of course.

it is absolutely true that WotC, as of now, does not appear to have any business reason to make a 6E. No one knows how successful 2024 has been, but my guess is that it is doing fine, and will do even better as folks finish up 2014 campaigns and such. That's all reasonable and good.

But I still want a new edition of D&D for those emotional, nostalgic reasons I have mentioned a few times.

5.5 a place holder for me until 6E or quitting D&D.

I'll run older editions or Star Wars occasionally to break up the monotony of 5E.

It'll do for now.

 

[SlyFlourish]

These discussions can sometimes veer into unintended arguments, so i just want to pause and reassert (for myself too) that I am just talking about my personal desire for a new D&D. If I have gotten a little defensive or demanding, it is probably because having that personal preference questioned can get a little exhausting -- which, of course, ironically means I get terse and sound like I am doing the same thing.

My point being: I want a new edition of D&D because I like how a new edition of D&D reinvigorates my interest in the game. Of course I would like that new edition to be the one in my head, or close to it, but that's a different issue. I am not in any way wishing that other folks don't have the D&D they want. But the neat thing about 5E now is that we can both have what we want. Hypothetically, of course.

it is absolutely true that WotC, as of now, does not appear to have any business reason to make a 6E. No one knows how successful 2024 has been, but my guess is that it is doing fine, and will do even better as folks finish up 2014 campaigns and such. That's all reasonable and good.

But I still want a new edition of D&D for those emotional, nostalgic reasons I have mentioned a few times.

As one who sent like thirty replies to you on the thread, I want to clarify that you're totally fine to want what you want. I obviously don't agree that we should expect D&D to come out with a 6th edition that both veers away from 5e and also happens to mesh with whatever we want.

My view is that we can't have a strong RPG hobby if we're dependent on a single multi-billion-dollar publicly traded company. I did my time trying to convince Sony to change Everquest 20 years ago. This hobby is so strong because we each have total control over what we bring to our tables – systems, themes, houserules, whatever. We can talk with thousands to millions of other people about it and then focus on the six people we have around our table tonight (18th level 5e against a marilith queen! whoo hoo!).

I love D&D and I love RPGs. I'm infatuated with Dragonbane at the moment and can't wait to start our upcoming Daggerheart campaign. I want to share the love of the RPG hobby and highlight fantastic RPGs – big or small. I want to show the wide range of options this hobby has for each of us.

One day WOTC (or maybe someone else?) will come out with a new edition off D&D. It's not a certaintly but it's a likely possibility. I bet it won't be for at least three years and maybe much longer. I'm almost certain it won't meet all the expectations of what we want. Even my wife and I can't agree on what we'd want from a fresh start of D&D. Good thing for me, I have a lot of options I love already.

 

[Staffan]

That's the point. Where is the Delve format now? Is it in use? Are we seeing it in any of the 5e adventures? Oh, right. No we aren't. Why not? Because it was immediately dumped on by the fandom that hated it. So, out the window it went.

I, for one, liked the Delve format for what it was. The main issue was that it took up a lot of space, one or two pages per encounter, compared to something like: "Dire apes, 35 hp each, Monster Manual page 62".

I think Wizards might have become a little too enamored with it. Looking at Eyes of the Lich Queen which used the format, it is used in every encounter. Eyes spends 70+ pages (out of 128) on its encounter set-pieces, and most of them are not worth that space. Save it for designing complex encounters with lots of interesting terrain.

 

[Lanefan]

Again, this is a thing that happens every edition. Some people needed change with 2E --> 3E, and some resisted it (just as an example, it is the same every time). Everyone saying "why don't you play a different game?" are engaging in the same exact "my preferences are more important to me" that I am, along with everyone else that has said they are ready for a 6E.

"Why don't you play another game?"

Why don't you keep playing 5E -- especially since it is the most robustly supported edition ever and can continue to be since it is in the Commons -- and let us have our new edition of D&D. We are overdue as it is.

Be careful with the "us" and "we" here - I too would love to see a new D&D edition, but I suspect the new version I'd like to see would be light-years different from the new version you'd like to see.