Best 3.5 pre-order prices: $17.62 each at Walmart ($52.86 + $5.88 S&H = $58.74)

Hmmm, I will not be buying 3.5 from my FLGS, which has no discount. Nor will I be buying it from Walmart, which has around a 40% discount. Instead I will be buying it from my FLBS (Friendly Local Book Store) which has a 20% discount on special orders, is locally owned, and with whom I have been doing business since 1988. There is often a compromise between supporting local businesses and getting a bargain.

The Auld Grump
 

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I bought my Ruger Mini-14 Ranch Rifle at Walmart, and I'm gonna get my D&D 3.5 books there too.

Yay Walmart.

You know, if it pisses you off that Walmart asks recording companies to make special vesions of songs for them, you can always just skip buying music there. It would serve exactly the same purpose, since the business Walmart does, in CD sales, is what gives them any clout with the recording industry.
 

Is Thing-Mart within their rights to only sell non-Blue Things?

Lol.

Well, the knee-jerk reaction is to say, "Of course, ThingMart can do whatever it wants." But when you become the dominant player in an industry, then the rules change for you.

Think of Microsoft. When you own a practical monopoly then suddenly you can't do things like change your OS so non-Blue things don't run anymore or even bundle your Green things all together. Want GreenOS? Then buy Green Browser too. That lands you in court for 5 years (even if you get away with it in the end.)

Overall, that's my problem with ThingMart. I think its terribly disingenious of people to argue in this thread that they're shopping at ThingMart in order to preserve capitalism when ThingMart itself would love to crush every other competitor out of existence and then rake the consumer over the coals. That's the nature of ThingMart's business model.

I don't think there's anything inherently evil about buying from ThingMart; I'd just hate to see a long term future where the mass-market discounters won the fight with the FLGS. "OK d20 publishers, here's what we want. Our market research has shown that very few people actually have d20s. But lots of people have d6s. If you have any d6 games, we'll stock them. But we can't afford the shelf space for d20 anymore." Mass-marketeers cater to the lowest common denominator and the RPG industry does not fit nicely in that particular hole.
 

Gizzard said:
Lol.

Well, the knee-jerk reaction is to say, "Of course, ThingMart can do whatever it wants." But when you become the dominant player in an industry, then the rules change for you.

Think of Microsoft. When you own a practical monopoly then suddenly you can't do things like change your OS so non-Blue things don't run anymore or even bundle your Green things all together. Want GreenOS? Then buy Green Browser too. That lands you in court for 5 years (even if you get away with it in the end.)

Overall, that's my problem with ThingMart. I think its terribly disingenious of people to argue in this thread that they're shopping at ThingMart in order to preserve capitalism when ThingMart itself would love to crush every other competitor out of existence and then rake the consumer over the coals. That's the nature of ThingMart's business model.

I don't think there's anything inherently evil about buying from ThingMart; I'd just hate to see a long term future where the mass-market discounters won the fight with the FLGS. "OK d20 publishers, here's what we want. Our market research has shown that very few people actually have d20s. But lots of people have d6s. If you have any d6 games, we'll stock them. But we can't afford the shelf space for d20 anymore." Mass-marketeers cater to the lowest common denominator and the RPG industry does not fit nicely in that particular hole.

Knee-jerk? :D I think you've not only missed the point of my analogy but are attempting to fashion of straw man from my hypothetical in order to refocus on the original debate in this thread, I.E. that of where one purchases their gaming supplements, for what reasons and who is to blame for the advent of such a choice. The Thing-Mart analogy has to do with the Music sales/censoring question and has little in common with their game supplement pricing policy other than both currently being focused on Walmart. I'll try to touch on both debates so you can pick both apart without losing the point in further anlagous rhetoric. ;)

Regarding the game supplement pricing policies, it's the publishers and distributers that set the wholesale prices and offer deeper discounts for larger volumes of stock. This appeals to chains like Walmart who are in a position to take advantage of them while few, if any, FLGSs are not. If Walmart takes advantage of those deeper discounts and keeps their shelf price low in order to secure sales that's no less than would be done by a large FLGS over a smaller FLGS in the same market.

The primary paralel between the music situation and the game supplement situation aside from both pointing toward Walmart as unfair is that people who do not like the outcome focus their umbrage in the wrong place.

It's easier to blame Walmart for the toned-down versions of their favorite artist's music than it is to realize that if the artist never records a toned-down version, and the distributor doesn't offer a toned-down version, then a toned-down version never exists, never makes it to market and therefore can never be sold at Walmart. In the end it is the artist's choice and if the artist complains and points toward Walmart then they are simply being deceptive and shifting the focus of blame for what ever reasons they may have. Is the artist to blame for wanting radio and market exposure? I can hardly think so.

But back to the game supplement situation since you seem more keen on that subject. Does anyone really think that Walmart is selling game supplements for less than they pay for them in an effort to drive FLGSs out of business? Maybe. Perhaps a distributor or publisher who sells through Walmart will enlighten us on how much per unit Walmart pays for their stock and we'll know if they are getting them at deep discounts and making a small profit or if they are selling them at a loss and lower than an FLGS can.

Personally, I think publishers, writers, artists, editors, and graphic artists make precious little compared to what they deserve so I find it hard to blame the publishers and distributers when they try to go after new markets and more exposure by offering the deep discounts.

In the end you have to hope that the FLGSs will recover some or all of the losses on the few books that Walmart carries by being able to sell more of the small publisher's books that would never be sold through Walmart. The hope rests in the idea that with wider exposure more people come to the hobby and have to go to the FLGSs to get products that Walmart does not carry.

That's the price that is paid to expand the hobby, gain more profits that can be paid to present and future creators of supplements, and in the hopefully keep up the quality and quantity of materials that give all hobbists a wider and more varied choice of products from which to choose.

Is it right? Is it wrong? Is it just how it is?
 

Gizzard said:

I don't think there's anything inherently evil about buying from ThingMart; I'd just hate to see a long term future where the mass-market discounters won the fight with the FLGS. "OK d20 publishers, here's what we want. Our market research has shown that very few people actually have d20s. But lots of people have d6s. If you have any d6 games, we'll stock them. But we can't afford the shelf space for d20 anymore." Mass-marketeers cater to the lowest common denominator and the RPG industry does not fit nicely in that particular hole.

But then there would again be a niche for the FLGSs, now wouldn't there? New people would establish new shops to sell the stuff that the public wants.
 

Numion said:


But then there would again be a niche for the FLGSs, now wouldn't there? New people would establish new shops to sell the stuff that the public wants.

Ah, but would the makers of D20 products continue to produce D20 stuff for such a small niche market? More likely they would start making D6 stuff and drop D20. So what niche would the FLGS be serving then?
In this hypothetical situation where the mass-market distributers quit selling D20, the comparative size of the D20 niche market would be so small as to not matter. *sniff*

Not matter? I'm all choked up now. ;)

Oh, and thanks Tiefling. Hehe.
 
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Support the Game Industry

A free economy is not just about the lowest price, it is about choice. Where you purchase from is what you choose to support. But gaming is caught in an akward position, because ultimately if it ends up in the mass market, it loses its complexity and depth of play. Gaming also needs a real face-to-face community to survive, and though some of you just play with your immediate friends, not all gamers have current groups. FLGS does give people a way to find new groups, come together to discuss their hobby with new people and see a showcase of products put together by a fellow hobbyist.

There is no way something that takes as much time and energy as role playing, or miniature gaming or CCGS will ever have as large of a market as video games. So this means that these companies ultimately rely on the niche outlets and smaller publishers to give us the variety of products that this industry offers.

Probelm is that when a mainline product such as the core rule books of D&D goes mainstream, you are taking a key money earner from those niche markets. Those three products are the only things that a D&D player NEEDS. So all other releases are optional.

Two things occur from buying through places like Walmart:

1) you send the message that you feel the D&D books are overpriced (which they aren't this is a rant of many manufactures who feel that rpgs are finally coming into the prices they should be at for the work they take to create)

2) you may send the message to WOTC that you'll buy through the mass chain stores, but then that just makes WOTC's demograhics flawed as hobby sales drop and mass market increase. If hobby stores and distributors die from lack of WOTC sales, then most of the 3rd party publiushers, miniature copmpanies, dice companies, card supplies etc are in trouble as well. It could put them out of business too.

I personally want to support the gaming industry at all levels, Wal Mart doesn't serve the gaming industries interests except for prices that are to low IMHO. When D&D is just a simplifed boxed dungeon crawling adventure game on a mass market shelf or only an MMORPG and game stores are dead and gone, it is because you choose price over supporting the places that really care about the hobby.

Some one said something about Hasbro being the best thing that happened to D&D. The truth was Peter Adkinsen and Ryan Dancy (both long term gamers) created the current business model. When WOTC was sold to Hasbro, it became purely about sales and profit, and not the love for the hobby that WOTC was started from or D&D was saved with.

Just something to think about :)
 

Did this really need a whole new thread?
*shrugs* Buy where you want to. Gaming stores aren't just gaming stores around here. Here, they're comic shops. RPGs, CCGs, and mini games are barely a fraction of thier sales. If there is any danger from large chains to the gaming community, then the "gaming stores" would be doing something about it. For the most part, they aren't. Why? Because they hold a niche in the community that even better prices can't get. :cool:
 

All of these examples and analogies are giving me a headache, especially artists arguing over their CD's cover. The music I can understand, but the cover?

Here's what my Wal Mart had today:

2 liter bottles of Coca Cola for .66

Now, are you going to support your local friendly convience store and spend .99 for a 20oz bottle or buy up several 2 liters for the same money?
 

Wow!!! I have to say wow!!!

It is simply amazing what people on this thread are saying about WalMart and how they conduct business. Did anyone who posted here actually work for the company now or at some point in the past.

Someone said that Walmart is able to sell at the prices they do because they have cut out the middleman in that process. If you say so. But I keep getting paid; wonder if anyone in my company got that memo. You see I work for Anderson Merchandisers who supplies nearly all of Walmart's video, books, and music products. There is no other way to describe what I do other than a "middleman". In the dictionary there's a picture of me waving under the word middleman. Guess I have a job that doesn't exist according to some people on this thread.

I don't work for Walmart but I work at Walmart so I see things from all sides. Please be informed on the subject before randomly guessing what occurs. But who am I to stop this rather "entertaining" discussion.
 

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