Best 3.5 pre-order prices: $17.62 each at Walmart ($52.86 + $5.88 S&H = $58.74)

[Dark Jezter]

Maybe they used their mighty Wal-Mart power for good in this case. Maybe I just am bitter because I liked big old wasteful boxes and manuals that are more than 16 pages. But it's an example of how they can make a whole industry jump to their tune, which is the trend I was trying to point out.

I think you're exaggerating here about how small the game boxes are. Just take a look at all the stuff they jammed into the Neverwinter Nights box:

A 220-page spiral-bound instruction manual.
3 cds
A cloth map of of the Sword Coast North.
A quick reference card.

They fit all that inside one of those tiny boxes? It must be a Video Game Box of Holding or something!

After that, I look at the box for the Baldur's Gate II expansion pack I bought. Huge box, but all it contains is a single CD jewel case and a thin manual. Most of the other huge-box games I own are the same way, even the strategy games don't tend to fill up half their boxes.

I think I'll take the small boxes any day. They are less wasteful, and they are much easier to store on my shelf than the huge boxes.

 

[Bran Blackbyrd]

One thing that I just don't get in this discussion is the charge of "censorship" against Wal-Mart because they don't carry certain books, movies or music. I don't believe the word "censorship" has anything to do with whether a particular retailer will or won't carry your product. Censorship is strictly a matter of whether you are prevented from producing the product in the first place.

I think that Wal-Mart is engaged in more of a boycott of material that they deem inappropriate for their store. If you don't want to shop there because of that practice, I fully support your right to go that route. I don't happen to share that idea though.

If I go to a wine shop and ask for a bottle of Pepsi, they'll probably tell me that they don't carry it. They'll tell me that, while they do sell various types of beverages, Pepsi is not an appropriate product for their store. It may be because they find Pepsi not to their taste or because it is not what their average customer is looking for and therefore doesn't need to be taking up valuable shelf space. Whatever the reason, at no point did the owner of the wine shop attempt to stop the Pepsi factory from making Pepsi. And there are plenty of other places to buy Pepsi that aren't the wine shop. I'll probably still go to the wine shop to buy my wine.

This is a very poor example for a number of reasons. Words like "boycott" and phrases like, "won't carry", don't apply here.
If Wal Mart boycotted music with explicit lyrics then they wouldn't be carrying it. But they ARE carrying it. They're just removing whatever words and lyrics they object to before they sell it to you. That is censorship. If they simply didn't carry the music at all I could at least respect them for sticking to their guns.

No, they want to eat their cake and have it too. They don't want to carry music in the form the artist intended but they want the money this music brings them. That's not morality, that's greed and hypocrisy.
To use your (inaccurate) hypothetical situation; It's like they want to sell Pepsi because it rakes in the big bucks, but they remove the cola or the carbonation before they sell it because they don't think you should have those things.

Instead of a microscopic sign in the vicinity of the music displays saying that their CDs are edited, they should be required to put big red stickers on the cover of every CD letting the consumer know what's going on. Stickers that take up a quarter of the cover...

EDIT: FYI, I tried to post this around 11:30am but the boards gave me the finger. Back in business and busier than ever, eh ENWorld?

 

[Bran Blackbyrd]

I think you're exaggerating here about how small the game boxes are. Just take a look at all the stuff they jammed into the Neverwinter Nights box:

A 220-page spiral-bound instruction manual.
3 cds
A cloth map of of the Sword Coast North.
A quick reference card.

They fit all that inside one of those tiny boxes? It must be a Video Game Box of Holding or something!

After that, I look at the box for the Baldur's Gate II expansion pack I bought. Huge box, but all it contains is a single CD jewel case and a thin manual. Most of the other huge-box games I own are the same way, even the strategy games don't tend to fill up half their boxes.

I think I'll take the small boxes any day. They are less wasteful, and they are much easier to store on my shelf than the huge boxes.

You hit the nail on the head.
Most game companies had puny manuals before. Whether it was because they were cheap, lazy, or both I do not know. For these reasons a lot of companies have switched to including the (sparse) instructions on the CD. Of course, they could have just been sick of people emailing them saying they lost the instructions.
Companies that want to include more material with the game do so, regardless of box size. Look at the special versions of WarCraft III. If a larger box is a real necessity, they'll still use one.

 

[The Little Raven]

This is a very poor example for a number of reasons. Words like "boycott" and phrases like, "won't carry", don't apply here.
If Wal Mart boycotted music with explicit lyrics then they wouldn't be carrying it. But they ARE carrying it. They're just removing whatever words and lyrics they object to before they sell it to you. That is censorship. If they simply didn't carry the music at all I could at least respect them for sticking to their guns.

Actually, this is inaccurate. Walmart does not censor anything. Due to Walmart's operating procedures, any record label that wishes to market their product through Walmart must modify their material to make it acceptable for Walmart. The record labels make the choice to modify their music, which is where all the wonderfully edited radio versions of explicit songs come from.

Blame the recording industry, not Walmart.

No, they want to eat their cake and have it too. They don't want to carry music in the form the artist intended but they want the money this music brings them. That's not morality, that's greed and hypocrisy.

Wanting money is greedy? Damn, then I guess everyone on this board must be greedy, because I think everyone wants money. If I found something objectional, or more importantly, if my company found it objectional, I would do the same thing. However, if I could make money off of it, great. That's capitalism for you.

 

[The Little Raven]

And as for the person that said that Walmart would not be carrying books that don't move 10,000 units, such as Green Ronin or Necromancer Games books...

Rappan Athuk
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/prod...d=1761155&path=0:3920:18786:18788:18790:21196

Green Ronin
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/search-ng.gsp?search_constraint=3920&search_query=green+ronin

Looks like Necromancer Games and Green Ronin do sell through Walmart.com... maybe you should check on these things before you declare them to be true...

 

[Bran Blackbyrd]

Walmart does not censor anything. Due to Walmart's operating procedures, any record label that wishes to market their product through Walmart must modify their material to make it acceptable for Walmart. The record labels make the choice to modify their music, which is where all the wonderfully edited radio versions of explicit songs come from.

Blame the recording industry, not Walmart.

Semantics. It's not like I was trying to say that Wal Mart does the editing themselves. I'll let the recording industry share the blame with Wal Mart, they're greedy AND corrupt.

Wanting money is greedy?

Nope, I want money too. But then I AM greedy. Wal Mart, however, is able to commit acts of greed on a larger scale than myself. I'm hoping to win the lottery so I can move my greed to more of a national or perhaps global level.
Wanting money might not be greedy, but wanting to have everything both ways is. Wishy washy too, come to think of it.

 

[Airwolf]

For those of you out there yammering about Wal-Mart and censoring, quit your whining.

The company belongs to the shareholders. What they say goes. If they want a store that sells censored (modified, edited, etc.) books, music, and/or magazine then so be it. The last time I checked, this is still America and they are perfectly with in their rights to sell the material they want in a format that they want. (See Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Association).

If you really don’t like the way Wal-Mart does business buy elsewhere. Better yet, start your own discount chain and show those n00bs at Wal-Mart how to really run a business and make money.

As I mentioned before I don’t like Wal-Mart but it has nothing to do with the fact that they discount heavily or that they force manufactures to sell products to them at low-ball prices. I actively try not to shop at Wal-Mart.

Personally I kind of like the ‘steal from PC’ idea. I will just have to use my Matrix moves when the shotgun shows up.

 

[Numion]

I won't buy music from Wal Mart because of their practice of censoring whatever they don't like. Wal Mart is 10 minute away from me, the next closest place to buy music was closer to an hour away. It was a pain, but I'm not in the habit of buying a butchered version of anything.

What they don't like? I don't think that Wal-Mart censors anything "just because" - the pressure to do so comes from some outside source. Like the general public for example. Wal-Mart just wants to avoid flak from any sensitive groups. And can you really blame them for that?

 

[WizarDru]

No, they want to eat their cake and have it too.

[wipes a tear from his eye]

You got the phrase right! Bless you! Personal pet peeve of mine, that.


I'm not sure what the issue would be with smaller PC game boxes. The old size were constantly considered wasteful of resources and Walmart was hardly alone in that opinion. Go to an Electronics Boutique or GameStop, for example. They don't have miles of shelf space, and console titles have always been in smaller packages. Remember when Eidos was releasing games in those neat-to-look-at-but-inconvienent-to-store pyramid shaped boxes? Not every game is Ultima, with a cloth map, several books and so forth. But, as was pointed out, NWN managed to fit a lot into that little box.

 

[WizarDru]

What they don't like? I don't think that Wal-Mart censors anything "just because" - the pressure to do so comes from some outside source. Like the general public for example. Wal-Mart just wants to avoid flak from any sensitive groups. And can you really blame them for that?

Yeah, the general public was really clamoring for Sheryl Crow to remove her references to Walmart from an album that hadn't been released, yet.