Best and worst of 4th Ed. Monsters

[Garnfellow]

Caveat: my thoughts are based only only a very cursory skim of the 4e MM.

I really like how the gargoyle works now -- its ability is much more interesting than the old "only hit by magic weapons" or "DR 10/magic."

One monster type that doesn work that well is the Cyclops. Every last Cyclops and Fomorian has an ability called "Evil Eye", but that ability is completely different for every monster. Even with that aside there doesn't seem to be a strong central gimmick unifying them.

I had the same response -- the cyclops were very disappointing.

It's strange that the cyclops is such a memorable figure from mythology, and yet, despite many attempts, no version of D&D has produced a cyclops interesting enough to become iconic within the game.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I'm curious: What's wrong with the Purple Worm?

It has no special tricks except the ability to swallow you if bloodied. Our encounter with it basically relied on the Warlord keeping the Paladin above bloodied. The rest was just "focused fire". It lacks the reactive features of a Dragon or some area attacks (err.. like the Dragon). Maybe it would be more interesting if there was not enough healing in one character and enough hit points in the Defender to sustain the attacks on the Defender and you had to "sacrifice" someone else.

 

[Starsunder]

I'm curious: What's wrong with the Purple Worm?

They have very, very few abilities for a monster of thier hp total, which means essentially its going to turn into a very long, boring grindfest really quick.

Solo's (and some elites) are in danger of this anyway because of high hp totals, but the problem really rears its ugly head when the monster has damn near nothing to do except make a simple attack every single time.

I think its worth noting that the Purple Worm didnt have any more abilities in previous editions (I think...my memory is a little fuzzy and I dont feel like looking now), but now that they have craploads more hp and character damage is more moderated (b/c of 4th editions more balanced approach) it really stands out as a grindfest.

EDIT: Ninja'd

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

They have very, very few abilities for a monster of thier hp total, which means essentially its going to turn into a very long, boring grindfest really quick.

Solo's (and some elites) are in danger of this anyway because of high hp totals, but the problem really rears its ugly head when the monster has damn near nothing to do except make a simple attack every single time.

I think its worth noting that the Purple Worm didnt have any more abilities in previous editions (I think...my memory is a little fuzzy and I dont feel like looking now), but now that they have craploads more hp and character damage is more moderated (b/c of 4th editions more balanced approach) it really stands out as a grindfest.

EDIT: Ninja'd

3E was helped by the fact that Grabbing was one of the most powerful abilites a large monster could have, and only specific spells could help you out (Dimension Door, Teleport, Freedom of Movement). It created a special degree of tension to get it down as quickly as possible and get any swallowed comrades out. (And since not everyone was always up to speed with how Grapple is resolved, that might add an additional "novelity" factor )

 

[Nebulous]

I think its worth noting that the Purple Worm didnt have any more abilities in previous editions (I think...my memory is a little fuzzy and I dont feel like looking now), but now that they have craploads more hp and character damage is more moderated (b/c of 4th editions more balanced approach) it really stands out as a grindfest.

I took a look a the worm's stats. I guess if i were to "fix" it, i'd drop the hp to 400 or so and give it a new power. In line with what the big worm does, popping up out of the ground and attacking, it should have some cool area attacks, like a Body Slam where it can plop down on 3-4 PCs at once and Immobilize them, in addition to doing tremendous damage. But anyone Swallowed is going to be in some serious trouble regardless. I've never actually run a purple worm encounter in any edition of game that i can remember.

 

[Pbartender]

I am of more of a mixed opinion on the Hydra. I can't stand the fact that they all use acid and none of them use poison (the original hydra of Herculean myth was famous for its fatal venom just as much as its regeneration, and poison is a perfectly fine attack keyword)...

I've found that one of the easiest ways to modify creatures in the 4E MM is to take a creature and change its damage type.

For example, I recently created a lava-blob monster by simply taking an Ochre Jelly and changing all it's acid damage to fire.

I took a look a the worm's stats. I guess if i were to "fix" it, i'd drop the hp to 400 or so and give it a new power. In line with what the big worm does, popping up out of the ground and attacking, it should have some cool area attacks, like a Body Slam where it can plop down on 3-4 PCs at once and Immobilize them, in addition to doing tremendous damage. But anyone Swallowed is going to be in some serious trouble regardless. I've never actually run a purple worm encounter in any edition of game that i can remember.

I'd take a look at some of the Bulette's abilities... Rising Burst, Earth Furrow, and Earth Burrow are all powers that would be well suited to a Purple Worm.

The main problem with the Purple Worm would be its lack of actions as a solo monster. It needs to be multiple attacks (or area attacks) per round, it needs more powers that are not standard actions, and it needs more reactive actions so it can take actions outside of its turn. It seems the Purple Worm's designer didn't take WotC's own advice on Solo monsters in the DMG, when designing the beasty.

 

[Dragonbait]

I would have to say that what they did with the basic humanoids is great. I was giddy during a fight against duergar when I heard a fellow player who was initially resistant to 4e say "Well, at least they're not hobgoblins."
and then we encountered what made duergar unique.. Now the group groans and wimpers whenever we face duergar.

And again when I was GMing and the PCs were fighting goblins I heard another player say "F-ing shifty goblins!" when the fighter missed on a melee attack and the gobbo shifted as his reaction into the square next to the mage, cornering the spellcaster.

The different abilities of the humanoids makes each one unique and far more memorable.

Monsters that are "meh?" I havn't gotten past level 5 yet, so I have not encountered anything that seemed unimpressive.

 

[Festivus]

I took a look a the worm's stats. I guess if i were to "fix" it, i'd drop the hp to 400 or so and give it a new power. In line with what the big worm does, popping up out of the ground and attacking, it should have some cool area attacks, like a Body Slam where it can plop down on 3-4 PCs at once and Immobilize them, in addition to doing tremendous damage. But anyone Swallowed is going to be in some serious trouble regardless. I've never actually run a purple worm encounter in any edition of game that i can remember.

How about snagging something along the lines of an Ulgurstasta, give it some sort of Burst effect of spores. I have always liked that creature.

 

[Venport]

The Problem with creatures like the purple worm is that who ever did the stats for him did not fallow the advice from the DMG.

Elite

Although your elite creature represents two monsters in combat, it still has only one set of actions each turn. In effect, you’re trading two sets of actions for one. Thus, an elite monster needs additional opportunities to attack, hinder, or otherwise react to the characters.

Solo

. A solo creature represents five monsters in combat, so it needs a number of ways to take additional actions. It also needs more ways to use powers on its own turn and to interfere with the characters.

The purple worm does not have these kinds of powers. You could ether take off it's Solo\Elite abilities(+def, action points, and Hit point) and use 4-5 of them and it would be a fun fight or add some other powers.

I like to use minor actions for my solos letting him do many things in a round tends to make the PCs go WTF. Also I would give some kind of change in combat actions when bloodied. These are wild creatures and if they stay to fight to the death they would get very nasty when they are on their way out of the fight.

maybe something like

minor action recharge 5-6. Wave of earth, burst 3, the ground shakes and a wave of earth ripples under your feat, sending you into the air and crashing to the ground. +18 (or so) vs ref. Hit 3d8+7 dmg and target is prone.

and

Standard encounter can only be used when bloodied: Furry of the worm; make a attack vs each target with in reach

 

[Starsunder]

Yeah, I think it's safe to say that the Purple Worm could have benefited from some area attacks and/or minor actions to make the fight more dynamic.

One monster that I think was well done and would be remiss not to mention is Blazing Rorn the Fury. I think he's one of the best solos yet (up there with Tiamat imo). He has loads of unique attacks and his aura is really, really cool. I like the fact that the fight changes significantly once he's bloodied (as opposed to the monster just receiving a recharge of one of it's attacks).

I really hope that Demogorgon is done right in the MM2.