Best attack bonus at 16th level?

[brehobit]

What's the best non-situational attack bonus you can get at level 16? No combat advantage, no powers, etc. Just things that are "always on".

Best I can find is:
Dragonborn fighter with a +4 weapon. STR 24=+7, level =+8, fighter=+1, prof=+3, magic=+4. So +23.

In another thread, it was shown that the average AC of a 16th level baddy is around 30-31. As you often are fighting things above your level, call the average AC 32.

So without some help from your friends (combat advantage, warlord/cleric powers etc.) or powers that give an attack bonus it seems that even the most optimized character will be missing a lot. Further, it seems that "to-hit" optimization is going to be hugely important, much more than in 3.5 (where a 16th level char would rarely have their first attack miss)

Thoughts?

 

[Blackbrrd]

There are a lot of situational bonuses and bonsues from powers that will help you hit with atleast your daylies. With a warlord in the party you can quite easily get +3 to hit when using an action point. Some powers give allies bonsues to hit if you hit, etc...

To-hit optimization is probably more important than damage optimization.

There is a reason that people think that the elves encounter power that lets them re-roll a miss (with a +2 bonus if you take the feat) is a great power.

Waiting with your encounter/daily power until you have a bonus to hit is probably a good idea. For instance the cleric can give another character +2 to hit if he hits. The character that gets the bonus can then use a power that gives bonuses to other characters, etc, etc. Party optimization is a good thing

 

[Mort_Q]

So... you're hitting about half the time with an optimized build without situational bonuses. So a non-optimized build with situational bonuses is likely also going to hit half the time.

That's about right isn't it?

The example you gave is a fighter, so STR vs AC.

The question is, does this follow for other classes that don't target AC?

 

[brehobit]

So... you're hitting about half the time with an optimized build without situational bonuses. So a non-optimized build with situational bonuses is likely also going to hit half the time.

That's about right isn't it?

The example you gave is a fighter, so STR vs AC.

The question is, does this follow for other classes that don't target AC?

Per the thread on defenses of creatures in the MM, the +2/+3 prof bonus looks to about make up for the different defense (if I read it correctly). Of course, those that can target multiple defenses will do best as they can pick the weak one.

 

[bobthehappyzombie]

I think the not targeting AC advantage is overstated.
Most attacks that don't target AC are impliment attacks not weapon attacks and so lose the profficiency bonus +3/+2 so the differance is less than it appears.

There are a few Weapon attacks that target other defences but the majority of attacks that target defences other than AC won't include profficiency bonuses.

 

[Saitou]

I think the not targeting AC advantage is overstated.
Most attacks that don't target AC are impliment attacks not weapon attacks and so lose the profficiency bonus +3/+2 so the differance is less than it appears.

There are a few Weapon attacks that target other defences but the majority of attacks that target defences other than AC won't include profficiency bonuses.

Yeah.... no. Go take a look at the rogue power list. There are some power levels that don't even have an option that targets AC!

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Yeah.... no. Go take a look at the rogue power list. There are some power levels that don't even have an option that targets AC!

Yep. That is probably their "hidden" benefit. Statistically, it probably would probably be the same as if you added +2 or +3 bonus to attacks vs AC.

The only reason why AC differs from Fort, Ref and Will at all is probably due to the existence of armor, that "naturally" improves AC, but only magical items can improve Fort, Ref or Will.

 

[Mort_Q]

Attacks that don't target AC aren't necessarily an advantage, they're just balanced at a different, seemingly lower, level.

Lower threshold, lower bonuses (as stated above).

 

[Saben]

Kensei Focus for another +1.

 

[bobthehappyzombie]

Yeah.... no. Go take a look at the rogue power list. There are some power levels that don't even have an option that targets AC!

Looks like I should pay greater attention to the rogue... I supose I'm not the first