D&D 5E Best Class and Specialization for Infiltration?

[77IM]

Wait with finding magical traps with arcana does that apply to stuff like alarm spells on doors or what? My old trickster had a fantastic arcana score but I never got to apply it for that... Was told I needed detect magic or bust.

I think it is a matter of DM's discretion what counts as a magic trap. I think maybe your DM was not aware of the Arcana rule.

Your best course of action is to talk to your DM about your dissatisfaction. My rule of thumb is always allow a check -- I feel bad about screwing over PCs automatically, because it feels very un-heroic. But maybe your DM has a different feeling about how infiltration scenarios should work; sometimes the DM can get frustrated when a well-designed infiltration scenario gets reduced to a cake-walk thanks to invisibility spells and misty step and so forth.

 

[Ahglock]

I can't tell you how many times I've been unable to even roll stealth because I had my invis cancelled by antimagic, or just other situations came up. Or I'm on a roof preparing and ambush but because the roof is flat with no edge I can't stealth there if I can see them. Bleh.

I love 5e, but I do kind of think the rules on stealth are a weak point for it.

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By the way. IMO that is a off reading of the rules. If combat is going yeah sure, though unless they are on the same level as you a roof that you are on should provide cover or concealment to those down below. But outside of combat you don't need cover or concealment. It's a bit more abstract and is assuming you are dashing between cover points when they aren't looking, blending in with a crowd etc. you roll stealth and if you best their passive perception you sneak past them. Your DM can assign penalties like disadvantage or say in this case it's impossible like a empty hallway. But most places will have cover and concealment for a rogue to sneak around in so IMO outside a situation where I'm designing a area to specifically challenge the sneak it's just a flat roll.

 

[Garresh]

I think it is a matter of DM's discretion what counts as a magic trap. I think maybe your DM was not aware of the Arcana rule.

Your best course of action is to talk to your DM about your dissatisfaction. My rule of thumb is always allow a check -- I feel bad about screwing over PCs automatically, because it feels very un-heroic. But maybe your DM has a different feeling about how infiltration scenarios should work; sometimes the DM can get frustrated when a well-designed infiltration scenario gets reduced to a cake-walk thanks to invisibility spells and misty step and so forth.

I think perhaps its a bit of that, but I also know the DM has kind of said when I walked face first into stuff "Well you should've just had Detect Magic" lol. It's kind of a tricky situation cause if I can rules lawyer and cite a bunch of crap on how stealth actually works, then yeah, I'll be able to convince. But then it turns into me being that guy who's constantly rules lawyering his way out of bad situations.

I'm either a rules lawyer or unplayably weak, so I might a well just minmax my way out of it next time I have a go at stealth and maybe that'll work.

 

[mach1.9pants]

Any character can attempt an Intelligence (Arcana) check to detect or disarm a magic trap, in addition to any other checks noted in the trap's description. The DCs are the same regardless of the check used. In addition, dispel magic has a chance of disabling most magic traps. A magic trap's description provides the DC for the ability check made when you use dispel magic.

Quote from the DMG

 

[77IM]

I think perhaps its a bit of that, but I also know the DM has kind of said when I walked face first into stuff "Well you should've just had Detect Magic" lol. It's kind of a tricky situation cause if I can rules lawyer and cite a bunch of crap on how stealth actually works, then yeah, I'll be able to convince. But then it turns into me being that guy who's constantly rules lawyering his way out of bad situations.

I'm either a rules lawyer or unplayably weak, so I might a well just minmax my way out of it next time I have a go at stealth and maybe that'll work.

There's a third option: just tell her that this rule is annoying you so much that you're going to scrap your character and start over and see what she says. It really sounds to me like your DM is being adversarial or saying "No" too much (I've played with DMs like that; any idea a PC comes up with, the DM reflexively says they can't do it or it's too hard or something). But of course I don't really know your DM and am only guessing based on what I read here.

Like instead of rules-lawyering and saying "Well the rules say I can use Arcana!" you can ask nicely and say, "Hey this constant need for detect magic is really annoying and pretty much ruining my character concept, can I make an Arcana check instead?"

Maybe you could keep your Arcane Trickster and seek out scrolls of detect magic? (You can cast it off the scroll as it's a wizard spell and you have access to the entire wizard spell list; the Sage has ruled on this multiple times.) Or go on a quest to find a magic item that detects magic? Maybe a pair of glasses that lets you cast detect magic as a bonus action 3/day or something.

I'm saying this because I'd answer your initial question, "Which class is the best infiltrator?" with Arcane Trickster Rogue. I think Assassin Rogue, Lore Bard, or Warlock could also work. Of those, only Lore Bard is going to have a better chance against magical traps, and they can get decent disguise/stealth spells too, plus Expertise. So if you don't want to reroll Arcane Trickster and just want to min-max your way through, go Lore Bard. Valor Bard should also work reasonably well.

 

[5Shilling]

Top of page 121 of the DMG is the spot that refers to using Intelligence (arcana) to detect and disarm magical traps, but I agree with the above about discussing this with your DM, whatever you end up doing.

Another option: if you can't fight your way in and you can't sneak your way in, then talk your way in! Take a bard or a mastermind rogue with a disguise kit. Disguise yourself as a guard or someone else who has a right to be there, or find a guard when he's not at work, befriend him, charm him, persuade him or con him into letting you in. The best way to get into a place is to have someone open the door for you and show you around (but of course if the DM is taking an adversarial stance they might not stand for this either).

 

[Ashrym]

To answer the question, I think rogue is the best option but not necessarily arcane trickster for the magic. Thief has advantage on stealth and some mobility help, assassin have great infiltration abilities outside of stealth, and any of the three options mentioned applies reliable talent to the checks. When a rogue has reliable talent and the norm is checking against passive perception then the rolling tends towards automatic success, which would likely annoy your DM. The DM sounds like he or she might restrict environmental factors needed for stealth.

The ritual caster feat and INT (arcana) checks were already mentioned and would also apply reliable talent, as would other related checks. Reliable talent is great for the type of play described.

Alternatives were already mentioned in the shadow monk, druids, bards, and warlocks etc. Lore bard is particularly strong in the area with the skill and spell support. Polymorph can replace the wildshape abilities the druid might offer.

Talking it over with the DM is still likely your first step.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Hey, just looking for some advice on the best class for infiltration work around level 9 in an urban environment. I played as an Arcane Trickster but had to retire him for purely roleplay reasons. But, I was kind of dissatisfied with my ability to deal with magical defenses on areas, especially since your spells list is limited to only 1 spell outside of Illusion and Enchantment.

Here's a number of situations I've run into:

Alarm Spells. They're cast on doors, windows, and rooms. I've triggered these several times, unfortunately.

Antimagic Fields. Example: I was walking through an open gate with an invisibility spell, sneaking past 2 low level guards. Unfortunately there was an antimagic field in place, so I was quickly grappled and thrown in a cell. Luckily another stealthy character in our group misty stepped through the fence and managed to get me out, because he was really lucky the alarm spell in place had just worn off.

Magical Traps. There's no way to find traps without using Detect Magic or Identify, and again I have to choose between knowing they're there, or knowing what I'm dealing with, significantly limiting my options. Sometimes I'll make an educated guess and choose horribly wrong. Like if I decide maybe we should trigger a distraction and run through, only to discover it's a sleep spell not an alarm.

So when facing these scenarios, an arcane trickster really does just fall flat. They're good in combat, but I actually feel like rogues as a whole kind of suck for scouting against anything that isn't mundane. If they're scouting using invisibility, they can't see traps. If they're sneaking with detect magic, they can't tell what kind of trap it is or anything. If they take identify, they can't see traps anymore.

So for a level 9 infiltrator and scout, how do I get a way to deal with these things without gimping myself?

Shadow Monk. Bamf!-hop through keyholes, past traps, etc.

You could also dip 3 into Tome Lock and get both a familiar (for scouting, and possibly stealing the keys when you get thrown in a cell) and Detect Magic as a ritual.

 

[Gardens & Goblins]

You could give Cleric of Life a go and hide in plain sight.

Everyone needs a healer, and they're rarely turned away, unless we're dealing with Team Evil who are comprised soley of undead and demon nasties. Throw in some deception and remembering to pick up perception and you're good to go.

One of my favourite characters was my Mercenary Healer. He'd heal anyone, for a price. Both loathed and loved equally, he could move between camps and groups fluidly.

 

[Garresh]

Shadow Monk. Bamf!-hop through keyholes, past traps, etc.

You could also dip 3 into Tome Lock and get both a familiar (for scouting, and possibly stealing the keys when you get thrown in a cell) and Detect Magic as a ritual.

Lol I have such a hardon for shadow monk now, actually. It wouldn't really solve some of the problems I had, but it's so fun looking to play I'm not sure I'd care. Just go 6 monk 3 lock and you get an Imp, detect magic and devil's sight invocations, and run around creating darkness constantly. Plus the imp has devil's sight so you can flurry and give 1 attack to the imp to poison so he doesn't feel left out.