Best Gestalt Combo for Wizard

[Dannyalcatraz]

Yup and since this is a rules forum, most people look at things from a strict rules reading.

Lets take it for granted from now on that I will never be a RAW person since there hasn't been a ruleset without self-contradictory text.

After all, RAW, the PHB (and the SRD, for that matter) can't agree in 100% of its pages that fists are not natural weapons.

RAW is a starting point for analysis, not an excuse for ending rational examination of the game.

Besides, the Vow's text is not as precise as some say:

To fulfill your vow, you must not own or use an material possessions, with the following exceptions: You may carry and use ordinary (neither magic nor masterwork) simple weapons, usually just a quarterstaff that serves as a walking stick. You may wear simple clothes (usually just a homespun robe, possibly also including a hat and sandals) with no magic properties. You may carry enough food to sustain you for one day in a simple (nonmagic) sack or bag. You may carry and use a spell component pouch. You may not use any magic item of an sort, though you can benefit from magic items used on you behalf - you can drink a potion of cure serious wounds a friend gives you, receive a spell cast from a wand, scroll, or staff, or ride on your companion's ebony fly. You may not, however, borrow a cloak of resistance or any other magic item from a companion fit even a single round, nor may you yourself cast a spell from scroll, wand, or staff.

After "You may carry and use a spell component pouch," its all about not using magic items.

Before that? There is a clear exception for simple weapons, which includes knives. Fine. Does that mean he can't carry a spoon? Historically speaking, many of the RW's ascetics carried a bowl (which sometimes doubled as a hat) and (usually) wooden spoon of some sort- they're quite useful. Strictly interpreting the Vow, though, he can't.

What about a rock? Its not a simple weapon- not according to the PHB, at least- and its not on the VoP list, but one would be hard pressed to say how carrying around a hunk of granite or limestone would be a violation. What about a pebble? In some ascetic traditions, keeping a stone (especially a sharp one) in your mouth for weeks, months or even years at a time was practiced to teach the lesson of listening before talking.

Can the ascetic use a piece of rope to cinch in his clothing? How about to cinch his food bag or tie it to a pole (probably his quarterstaff) for carrying? Its not on the list.

Can he carry a needle and thread to mend his homespun clothes? If so, can he have a pouch in which to carry it (to keep it from getting into his food, if nothing else)? Its not on the list.

Can the ascetic pick up a piece of plant- a twig, a piece of fruit or berry? What if the ascetic is a Druid, Ranger or Cleric of a nature deity, and those plant bits are components or holy symbols? Now the VoP is distinguishing between what is food or focus, and that nature will change depending upon the type of ascetic and his intention at that moment.

Ditto the question of an ascetic carrying a creature. When is it a component, companion, focus or food? The answer? That depends.

I could go on about how strict interpretation of the VoP raises more and more internal inconsistencies, but I won't in this thread.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

At any rate, what about a Beguiler/Wizard (esp. a Focused Specialist)? You get 2 classes with Int based casting, one of which can use armor and some slightly better weapons. Any feat energy (see Arcane Strike and Heritage feats, above) or PrCl ability (see Spellswords) that lets you channel spell without ASF becomes incredibly useful since you have a whole bunch of spells at your disposal.

And of course, you still have the option to use Still Spell and those without somatic components.

 

[roguerouge]

Well, then, what about beguiler/warmage? The warmage's damage is boosted by his intelligence bonus, although his casting stat is Charisma. He'll eventually get medium armor, allowing mithral full plate casting. And he'll be able to blast and do illusion/enchantment all day long with better than a wizard's flexibility at no cost. He'll have great skills to boot, which his 2-PC party will need.

The downside is the poor BAB and the poor saves (Will's your only good one).

 

[blargney the second]

I've always wanted to try using artificer as one side of a gestalt combo. Long lasting buffs to help you do whatever you want, and craft any permanent items you need in your spare time.

 

[irdeggman]

Well, then, what about beguiler/warmage? The warmage's damage is boosted by his intelligence bonus, although his casting stat is Charisma. He'll eventually get medium armor, allowing mithral full plate casting. And he'll be able to blast and do illusion/enchantment all day long with better than a wizard's flexibility at no cost. He'll have great skills to boot, which his 2-PC party will need.

The downside is the poor BAB and the poor saves (Will's your only good one).

The Beguiler spells are limited to no ASF with light armor.

The warmage's medium armor benefit only applies to warmage spells not to all arcane spells.

 

[Jack Simth]

The Beguiler spells are limited to no ASF with light armor.

The warmage's medium armor benefit only applies to warmage spells not to all arcane spells.

There's a feat to boost that by one category... but with the Beguiler's stealth skills, you probably won't want to go with medium armor anyway, just due to the ACP.

 

[Darklone]

Lurk/Wizard would do fine for a sneaky INT based char with lotsa options (and many swift action options while doing the wizzie spellcasting). Bad for hitpoints though.

 

[Jack Simth]

Lurk/Wizard would do fine for a sneaky INT based char with lotsa options (and many swift action options while doing the wizzie spellcasting). Bad for hitpoints though.

Possibly play an Elan Lurk, and use that nifty Elan Resilience?

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

This Paladin would only need Int, Cha, and Dex. Wisdom is nice, but for the limited spells as is, this Paladin wouldn't need a high one. Stat boosting items would fix any deficiencies.

Mind you, I've spent the better half of my D&D 'career' playing low armor, high Dex warrior-types.

You could also take the Serenity feat to remove cha from the equation entirely, makes all Pal abilities work off of wisdom. I think. Might make casting cha-based. In either case, basicallly lops off a required stat for paladins.

I still don't agree with you, though. Every character will want con, and while you don't need high str, you'll still probably want at least a 10 or 12. Wiz//Pal isn't godawful, I'd rather have it than plain Wiz or plain Pal, but it's still not that good. Sorc//Pal would be a much better combo, as wood Wiz//Fighter.


I still think the ones I suggested are the best combos. Doesn't mean you need to pick from them if you like other classes. I am impressed with the idea of a Kung Fu Genius Wizard//Monk, though. That would actually be pretty good. One nice little note: AFAIK, Monks are the only ones who get to count their unarmed strikes as natural weapons. Why is this useful for a Wizard///Monk. Level 1 swift action spell from Spell Compendium called Blood Wind. It lets you (or other target) attack with natural weapons for one round from range. Full flurry from the other side of the battlefield! Blows the Ring the Golden Bell feat out of the water!

 

[jedavis]

Note: this post is not related to the OP's question, but to the resulting discussion of gestalt combos that ensued.

How about Warmage/Warlock? Crank charisma and dex, add moderate int and con, dump wis and str. Wear light armor and never run out of firepower. The saves aren't so hot, but you don't have to worry about any spell failure.

I've been considering trying a Warlock/Rogue build centered around Darkness and Devil's Sight for EB+Sneak attack every round, but I get the feeling the rest of the party would object to Darkness every combat.

Has anybody considered gestalting with Green Ronin's True Sorcery?