Best martial controller ideas?

[awesomeocalypse]

One request I constantly see on people's 4e wishlists is for a martial controller. I think this is not only because martial is the only powersource without a controller class, but because the limitations and possibilities of what is considered "martial" might force the designers to come up with something that really feels distinct from the wizard, in a way that the invoker, for example, does not.

But what would such a class ideally look like? I've seen a lot of ideas brought up, but it seems like most of them can be placed under a few broad categories:

The Dragoon/Lancer. Polearms are already the easiest way for martial characters to add a little control, and they're one of the few broad weapon categories without a class devoted to mastering them. The dragoon would take that idea of melee control and run with it, using their polearm to rearrange the battlefield, and being highly mobile so they could get to the best places to deploy their powers. Lots of close blast and close burts effects to simulate swinging the polearm along in wide patterns, and control effects primarily focused on forced movement, knocking prone, dazing and eventually stunning at high levels, with perhaps a few blinding or slowing type crippling strikes. Movement powers like great leaping or unstoppable long distance charging that would allow the dragoon to effect different parts of the battlefield much like a controller would. For example, a power might allow the dragoon to, "jump to any square within 10 squares. upon landing make a close blast 2 attack that pushes all enemies 1 square and knocks them prone." This would be fairly easy to fluff as "martial", and would fill a truly unique niche in 4e.

The archer controller. Uses arrows to inflict control effects (possibly fluffing them as either trick shots or poison tips), and "storm of arrows" type effects for area attacks. The one downside is that it seems like the new seeker class might already sort of fill this niche.

The general. The warlord, but a controller instead of the leader, focusing on offensive debuffs and forced movement rather than buffs to teammates. For example, they might have a viper strike which hits an enemy, then slides him one square and makes him grant combat advantage to the next attacker.

The trapper/mechanist/gadgeteer. Builds stuff to hurt the enemies, from mundane battlefield traps to technology that is truly beyond what is available to others (like bombs). Could be problematic in that it inserts a level fo tech into the campaign that some dms might not be comfortable with, and that its easy to see it playing too much like the wizard.

 

[Thanee]

Grappler... single target controller.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Andor]

I think you covered most of them but, lessee.

The Spiked Chain Monkey
The Whip Master (with optional Devo prestige class for multiclassed bards)
The Mad Bomber - 'cause DnD needs grenades.
The Burrito Master - Close Blast specialist with some zones

 

[Lord Zack]

I've been thinking of a "brawler" class. Can attack multiple opponents in melee, but can also do psychic damage at range through his Charisma.

 

[awesomeocalypse]

Before the monk was released I had wonderd if they might make the monk a martial controller. I still think that could have been a really interesting take on the class.

 

[LightPhoenix]

I've been thinking of a "brawler" class. Can attack multiple opponents in melee, but can also do psychic damage at range through his Charisma.

So basically, a Monk?

I pretty much came to the same conclusion though. The inherent problem is being able to control multiple enemies, regardless of the approach. Any martial controller would need to be pretty mobile, to attack spaced apart enemies. There would need to be less damage than a Rogue/Fighter, but more of an ability to control enemy movement and action. In reality, I think the reason the niche isn't really there is because the Rogue (and the Monk) actually fills a fair amount of it. You could make them really good at controlling one enemy - but many classes are good at controlling one enemy. What makes Controllers useful is their ability to affect multiple enemies at once.

 

[Phaezen]

The general. The warlord, but a controller instead of the leader, focusing on offensive debuffs and forced movement rather than buffs to teammates. For example, they might have a viper strike which hits an enemy, then slides him one square and makes him grant combat advantage to the next attacker.

This is the most likely martial controller that we will see (although I believe Mike Mearls has stated that they won't fill a slot just to have it filled, the class concept has to make sense)

I can see forced movement powers, immediate reaction powers that prevent shifting and movement. The only problem is getting the damage output at range in a way that makes sense...

 

[awesomeocalypse]

My personal choice would definitely be the dragoon. I think that if you're going to do a martial controller you should make them melee so they truly feel different from other controllers--archers or gadgeteers just feel like they could be reskinned wizards. The general feels too thematically indistinct from the warlord--simply changing the role from leader to controller doesn't justify an entirely new class. And the monk seems to crowd out most grappler builds. Polearms are the one major item group without a class devoted to mastering them, you can easily use them to justify a wide array of melee control powers, and Final Fantasy style leaping/super mobility would make for a controller that has as much functional range as a wizard, but plays nothing like one.

 

[Shroomy]

I haven't seen any martial controller ideas that another existing class can't already do or do better (regardless of power source). The real problem IMO is that each of the four martial classes have controller as their secondary or tertiary role, so a lot of what we would expect a weapon-using controller to do is already done by the existing fighter, warlord, ranger, and rogue classes.

 

[jedo]

"I've been thinking of a "brawler" class. Can attack multiple opponents in melee, but can also do psychic damage at range through his Charisma."

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Sort of like Andre the Giant's character in the Princess Bride? I think his comment was that he was not used to fighting just one opponent, and it required different tactics. So perhaps a berzerker type class who is like the anti-avenger: he is weak against a single opponent, but the more targets in his area of attack the more of a bonus he gets. I could see him being especially effective while mounted.