Best Modern Game System

[ValhallaGH]

I will be running a "Men in Black" campaign setting based off the movies -- with all the corniness included -- so I guess the setting can be adapted for a little less than "realistic" set of firearms rules

I'm going to recommend True20 with the Worlds of Adventure supplement (giving you access to Agents of Oblivion).
I've seen one houserule that increases the deadliness of firearms in that rules set, and it really works well despite how odd it sounds.

To model the hypersonic shock of a bullet wound, when you take ballistic damage you take lethal damage normally. However, you automatically take the next highest level of non-lethal damage.
<snip>
To model the ability of modern armor types to absorb the hypsersonic shock of ballsitic damage, if you wear them it not only increases your toughness save, but you also take non-lethal damage normally.

That makes guns very scary weapons, even more so than they normally are.

 

[Nadaka]

Honestly, from the statistics I have heard, d20 modern is actually fairly realistic in terms of fatality when you consider the average person is probably at level 2 to 4. More than 90% of gunshot victims survive in america. Though most of those gunshot victims either flee or hit the floor after 1 hit, something d20 modern does not model very well as there is no state between "Im fine" and "Im dieing".

My personal suggestion is d20 modern, but take that with a grain of salt, it is my absolute favorite system. I would however suggest a few houserules to get the feel closer for you.

To get that "guns rule at range" feal, while keeping your players generally alive, I suggest adding W/VP rules instead of the HP/MDS standard.

This does a couple of things.
Mooks are increadibly fragile without vp. On average 1 or 2 hits with any gun (2 to 4 with any melee weapon) can and will "put down" anyone.
You have a wounded state between "im fine" and "im dead" that gives penalties for actually recieving wounds.
Your players and special NPCs with VP are less fragile, but the same number of bullets will still kill them if they hit. Its just that the VP represent the ability to avoid the attack in a cinematic fashion. A crit will deal wound damage, so fearing the gun is something they will likely do.

For called shots, I recommend allowing the shooter to take a -2/-4/-8 penalty to expand the weapons threat range by +1/+2/+3. And on a successful wound hit, allow the player to deal a status effect (dependant on the body part targeted) instead of dealing (or in addition to) dealing wound damage. Combined with w/vp, this is VERY deadly.

I also have houerules for dealing with "bursts" from semi auto and full auto weapons that allow anyone to gain an advantage from weapons with a high ROF. I could share those if you like.

 

[Jim Hague]

I'd recommend True20 or Spycraft 2.0 - and second the Agents of Oblivion setting from Worlds of Adventure. Spycraft 2.0 is almost infinitely tweakable with the campaign qualities rules and would work perfectly for a MiB campaign, but it may well be too crunchy for you. True20 is a lot lighter in terms of rules, but not quite as tweakable or 'one book/out of the box' as SC 2.0.

I'll add a dissenting voice here and thumbs down on D20 Modern - it has too many wretched holdovers from D&D to fit the bill. Any game where a man in full plate can successfully charge across an open field and survive being machine-gunned by an M2 Browning isn't 'realistic' or even 'cinematic', it's ridiculous. Yes, there's rules tweaks you can do...but when you can get better rules that fit your game elsewhere, why bother?

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

Usually people want "realistic" gunfire rules when they've made a sniper's or machine gun nest and want to riddle some enemy with gunfire with impunity.

When they get shot alot, they desire them less.

It's a balancing act, always, between realism and playability. Hell, for most people, "realism" is tied far too heavily into "the myth of the gun" to be realistic. What they want is "hyper-kewl".

Getting shot sucks. Getting stabbed, slashed, poisoned, crushed, and beaten up sucks too. Any realistic fighting system just wouldn't be alot of fun to play because every part of it would seriously suck for your character from the word go. Action penalties from adrenaline, shock, stunning, random situations where one guy gets shot a half dozen times and keeps coming while the guy next to you drops from a shot in the leg. Or situations where your character gets hit and survives for five, ten, fifteen minutes but nothing anybody can do keeps him from dying anyway as he bleeds out from internal injuries ... boy THAT'S fun times.

--fje

 

[Psion]

For any modern sort of action/adventure game short light on mystical elements, my preference is Spycraft 2.0, for the following reasons:

• Classes are provided for common characters in a variety of sub-genres. Class abilities let characters be cool and strut their stuff without being "magic".
• Based on d20, which you should know, with a stronger emphasis on skills.
• Dramatic conflict rules let you handle non-combat conflicts like chase scenes, hacking attempts, interrogations, seductions, etc., smoothly and with a good level of excitement. These are based on the often imitated spycraft chase rules.
• Firearm rules are much better than d20 modern. Not "as realistic as possible", but much more playable than Phoenix Command. The firearm statistics are based on actual figures like muzzle velocity, but as a default, players are pretty heroic and aren't liable to die when the first bullet flies. But if you want something more gritty, see the next bullet point.
• Built-in campaign qualities and genre rules let you change the feel from gritty to fantastic, and vary other feels and qualities as well. It's not just a spy game anymore.
• (Oft-imitated) quick NPC rules let you put the detail where it is needed. You can make fully detailed PCs (or special NPCs, if desired), but your lackey NPCs are quick and easy, and easily scaleable.

 

[TheLe]

[imager]http://www.thele.com/TheLeGames/images/tn/U.Modern.Cheerleader_tn200w.jpg[/imager]Kor, I sent you a free copy of Unorthodox Modern Cheerleaders, in case you and your group decide to try the d20 modern route.

`Le

 

[takyris]

Here's what I was thinking of for a game that allowed danger AND heroism:

Grim Tales
Class bonus to AC goes away when you're flat-footed. People with Uncanny Dodge get the class bonus INSTEAD of their Dexterity. So if you're flat-footed, you're reeeeeally easy to hit.

When you're flat-footed, your massive damage threshold drops by 10.

This makes games focus a lot more on surprise -- the team that gets the drop on the bad guys survives, and the team that gets surprised... has trouble.

In my opinion, this'd be good for a noir-type gamr where being held at gunpoint (or with a knife to the throat) should feel really dangerous.

(Optional third rule: ditch the DC15 damage save and replace it with damage dealt, or damage dealt +10 if you're flat-footed.)

 

[Vigilance]

On a side note: RPO's Blood & Guts supplements are a great option for a military campaign!

You just made my day

Chuck

 

[Jim Hague]

Usually people want "realistic" gunfire rules when they've made a sniper's or machine gun nest and want to riddle some enemy with gunfire with impunity.

When they get shot alot, they desire them less.

QFT, here, and I don't disagree.

It's a balancing act, always, between realism and playability. Hell, for most people, "realism" is tied far too heavily into "the myth of the gun" to be realistic. What they want is "hyper-kewl".

Getting shot sucks. Getting stabbed, slashed, poisoned, crushed, and beaten up sucks too. Any realistic fighting system just wouldn't be alot of fun to play because every part of it would seriously suck for your character from the word go. Action penalties from adrenaline, shock, stunning, random situations where one guy gets shot a half dozen times and keeps coming while the guy next to you drops from a shot in the leg. Or situations where your character gets hit and survives for five, ten, fifteen minutes but nothing anybody can do keeps him from dying anyway as he bleeds out from internal injuries ... boy THAT'S fun times.

--fje

I think Phoenix Command was mentioned upthread a bit...and having tried to play it on a lark, yeah, it's...hefty. My recc for Spycraft is mostly based on the tweakability of the system and its one book approach. Moreso, if you don't like the SC 2.0 classes, you can go grab Back to Basics ( http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=7371& ) and you get the flexibility of Modern classes with (IMO) a superior rules set. I'd prefer True20 personally, since it's lighter, but I've found that SC 2.0 is usable for damned near anything, if you're willing to put the back end work in as GC, and it has bits that are absolutely brilliant - the Dramatic Conflicts, Campaign Qualities and NPC generation in particular.

Speaking of which, how's your adaptation of that for D20M coming, Heap?

 

[Jim Hague]

And as an aside, despite my utter, unrelenting and iron-clad dislike of D20 Modern, Chuck's 'Blood and...' books are worth the price if you go that route. They're good enough that I considered using D20 Modern, if only briefly, and are really excellent overall, whatever your preference in systems might be.