Best. Quote. Ever.

[sckeener]

Jason Brown's description of Epic level hooks up nicely with what I think is broken in all levels of play.

Too often I have players that expect the same thing from 1st level to 20th level except they and their opponents can do more at 20th. I'm disappointed more players don't have goals for themselves. I'm disappointed that DMs don't expect more from their players.

Sometimes it is nice to have one shot adventures or side adventures that don't tie into anything, but if that is all you are playing why not just play a multi-player console game?

I can remember one hack-n-slash game I was playing in where the DM in order to challenge our 16th level party (of 6 players) tossed a mind flayer with monk levels and beholder with rogue levels at us...afterwards the beholder with rogue levels has become our standard for silliness. I would have liked them more as opponents if they hadn't felt like goblins coming around the corner...

The higher in level the more players and DMs should be focusing on organizations/factions rather than individuals. A 16th level party shouldn't be tossed a mind flayer just as an appetizer...without any context, all it is a collection of stats with an image associated with it.

 

[Tiberius]

I can remember one hack-n-slash game I was playing in where the DM in order to challenge our 16th level party (of 6 players) tossed a mind flayer with monk levels and beholder with rogue levels at us...afterwards the beholder with rogue levels has become our standard for silliness. I would have liked them more as opponents if they hadn't felt like goblins coming around the corner...

I disagree that the beholder is silly. It seems a great way to boost the damage from their Inflict and Disintegrate eyes.

 

[EditorBFG]

I disagree that the beholder is silly. It seems a great way to boost the damage from their Inflict and Disintegrate eyes

It seems silly becuase a giant floating eyeball with little glowing eyes on tentacles coming out the top being sneaky and picking locks seems silly.

There has to be more to the game than finding ways to increase damage.

Of course, as a GM, at epic levels you're acting on every dumb idea you can think of to do just that. It does seem a bit absurd.

 

[sckeener]

There has to be more to the game than finding ways to increase damage.

Exactly and to expand on that there has to be more to the game than beefed up opponents.

The beholder in Shackled City was much better than the one-shot rogue leveled beholder my hack-n-slash DM tossed at us.

also...when an epic level entity dies there should be tons of ripples in the campaign as the new power structure changes. It shouldn't feel like I just killed a goblin.....

When I run a game, frequently there are ripples in the game from the actions of the players at all levels of play....goblins have families and friends. There are always more layers to pull back and expand.