Best Sci-Fi television series EVAR!

Welverin said:


Notice how most of the 'it got cancel before it had a chance to get going' shows were on Fox?

At least the writers of Brisco County tied up the plot lines (the major ones at least) before finishing the first season. Sadly, there wasn't a Christmas episode or one of those 'retrospective' episodes.

It may have been that Fox just counted on its heavyweights: X-Files, the Simpsons, Married With Children and that teen angst drama set in the FAR future, Bevery Hills 90210. :D
 
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Seeing as...

...Dru's post covered most of what I wanted to say, and probably in a clearer and more concise manner, I'll just add a few remarks to his list.

Re: Star Trek (OS) --It made SF on TV viable as adult programming, as opposed to a kids' only genre . It was the most well-rounded show of the list {excepting possbily Dr. Who}. While its not original, per se, it took decades worth of SF themes and addressed practically all of them in a 3 year TV run. It was at times an action show, a space opera {well, as much of one as its budget would allow}, Cold War parable, political allegory, drama, comedy, psuedo Greek tragedy, etc. It satisfied the requirements of drama: to wit, it explored the human condition; the requirements of "serious" SF: both examining/opining on the impact of technology and changing cultural mores and using SF tropes to to recast time-honored dramatic inquires into said human condition; and finally, it satisfied the requirements of "pop" SF; big spaceships, cool devices, Mongols in Space, planet-eating Doomsday Machines.

Admittedly, it did all of this with varying degrees of success, but at least it tried. Plus, it sported a cast with real chemistry, which is priceless in an ensemble show. ... And that's why its best.

Re: Dr. Who: --Drew nailed it, its fun. Even with its BBC-sized budgets it created a sense of wonder. Part of the appeal of SF has always been that wonder; that voyage into the exotic, which is couched in scientific terms, but doesn't require a whit of actual science --which Dr. Who gleefully had none of. Reverse the polarity of the neutron flow my *ss...

What it did have was wit and charm, occationally even powerful drama --I'm thinking of the shot of Adric's Mathematics Badge right now with a tear in my eye. And it evolved; from a children's show into something else entirely.

Re: Blake's Seven: --This was my first exposure to SF set outside the dominant authority system --that didn't feature an idealized, romanticed "rebellion". Its the anti-Star Trek and anti-Star Wars. Here the Federation are a bunch of bland, media-savvy fascists who employ lithe dominatrixes as Space Commanders, where the sentient computer is a annoying little box that everyone despises, where the "noble" main character disappears after season one leaving the cold-hearted, logical, all-too-nastily-human embezzler in charge. Blake's is a bit of a minor revoution in SF TV; as Dru said, meanspirited , bleak, without much nice to say about the human condition. Like Farscape after it, it traded heavily on inverting SF conventions. But its more than that; its stucture allowed for real conflict between the characters, and conflict=drama...

Re: Star Trek (THG): --Its an invaluabe step in the evolution on televised SF drama, but also something of a misstep. Often it was like an office drama set on a starship --a friend of mine called it L.A Law in space {didn't Corbin Bernson guest-star as a Q...}. It tried to be so adult, so much like any other contemporary adult drama {even during plots when the crew faced the extinction of of the human race} that they took a lot of the fun out of. Their writing staff wasn't up to the level of sophistication they were shooting for. Too often TNG was a clunky fusion of SF and conventional dramatic modes {SF drama tends toward the operatic, the "cosmic" while contemporary drama tends toward the neurotic microcosm...}. I so missed Kirk's solilliquising, his emphatic internally-rhyming ultimatums.

That said, it did have stand-out episodes, like "Darmok", "The Inner Light", and "Measure of the Man. It did what its predeccesor did, addressed SF themes, covered a lot of subgenres, even managed to innovate from time to time, such as in "Inner Light", which used a SF device to explore the soul of single character --instead of making broad comments on human nature, and "Darmok", which fused the SF classic "Arena" with a lesson on literary criticism.

I just wish the show wasn't so bloodless.

Re: B5: --I loved it from the start. Its the greatest space opera ever filmed. It embodies the SF experience for me; grand ideas, grand adventure, a fully-realized "other" world to visit, as well as the downside, frequently shoddy technical execution. JMS's speeches soar, his mundane dialogue often makes me wince. If JMS would have had some more help, like his very own D.C. Fontana or Robert Hewitt-Wofle, I'm pretty sure B5 would stand alone. As is, it was one hell of ahievement, there was and still is, nothing else like it.

Re: Farscape: --What's not to like about a well-done postmodern pulp sci-fi show that resembles nothing so much as Buck Rogers blended together with Pulp Fiction --complete with frequent untranslated swearing? A great SF show that doesn't give a damn about science at all; it merrily concerns itself with all the props and cool gadegtry; spaceships, yellow-light spitting ray-guns, currently requisite black leather fetish/flight-wear. A slam-bang adventure with a shocking respect for its characters --despite how it humiliates them-- and for psychological realism {no matter how perverse the action got, the show rarely lost its emotional moorings}. For my money, Farscape isn't just one of the greatest SF shows EVAR, its brilliant commentary on SF as a genre, an exploaration of the different appeals of SF {I could have swallowed my toungue when D'Argo admitted he "just liked blowing things up" with his spaceship}, a rare example of metafiction that also satisfies on the gut level of character and plot... blah, blah, blah. But, its unconcerned with many of the traditional functions of SF narratives, so it can't be the best.

Re: DS9: --Why isn't this on your list Dru?!

If you agree w/me that STG was an unwieldly attempt at raising the level of dramatic sophistication for SF TV, then keep agreeing that DS9 was a smashing success in doing just that. Nothing in DS9 is new; in terms of innovative SF ideas, they were fresh out. No brave new worlds to explore, so the writers focused on the characters, on ongoing conflicts ripe with dramatic payoff, on the fundemental elements of dramatic narrative. Its SF drama done right; its functions equally well as soap-opera and space opera. Plus, it had the polish, the consistently good dialogue, the more evenly-distributed acting talent that was missing from B5. DS9 became just as much an 'SF novel for television' as B5 was, and in an odd way, the strengths of DS9 had little to do with the SF bits. So it really can't be the best SF show ever, but I'd argue its pretty close to the best TV drama EVAR...

I'll stop now. "A few remarks"... I make myself laugh sometimes.
 
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Re: Seeing as...

Mallus said:
Re: DS9: --Why isn't this on your list Dru?!

That's a darn fine question. Truthfully? It depends. I consider DS9 a near miss. I thought it had moments that were nothing short of brilliance and quality-wise, I think it was better, on average, than ST:TNG. But somewhere along the line, I got Star Trek fatigue. That may not be DS9's fault, but I grew tired of the reliance on technobabble engineering saving the day and the many other tropes of DS9. I enjoyed many aspects of the show, such as the character of Garrick, who immediately raised the quality of any episode he was in, for example.

I thought that the first two seasons were an interesting allegory and that they were really balancing on a wire. And then they sort of fell off it, for me. I dropped out for a while, and then when I returned, I learn of some changes that just seemed so silly that I wasn't interested (ex: Bashir's really a super-genius, and he's just been pretending to be dumb all this time). I took the announcement of the addition of Worf to the cast as a 'jumping the shark', regardless of whether it was or not.


As for SG-1, I didn't list that because I simply haven't seen enough of it to make a judgement. The episodes I've seen are great, but I just haven't had time to watch it.

I didn't mention Jeremiah, even though I think it's a great show, mostly because it's very uneven...and judging from JMS recent comments, MGM is probably a large part of that problem. :(
 

Re: Re: Seeing as...

WizarDru said:
I learn of some changes that just seemed so silly that I wasn't interested (ex: Bashir's really a super-genius, and he's just been pretending to be dumb all this time).
I don't think Bashir played dumb so much as he was honestly naive...

I liked Bashir being revealed as an ubermensch --sure, the way they introduced it a few years in was silly, but I liked how it added another layer to Bashir and O'Brien's relationship; they weren't just an odd couple, they were the Superman and the Everyman. I liked the rappore the characters had, even more so after it survived that kind of mythologizing. Those two archetypes are especially valuable to SF; one provides the vicarious release of a power-fantasy --I so want to throw darts like Julian-- and the the other is easily to indentify with, and comforting in its suggestion that through decentness and tenacity any crisis can be overcome...

Unlike TNG, DS9 works well in both modes: as "conventional" drama exploring two guys friendship over the years, and in the more superheated SF mode: where the characters symbolic function is explored through the use of a standard SF device.

Plus, I like that the whole genetic superman thing--barring the one episode-- wasn't used as a political allegory. Old-school SF would have used Julien's status as genetic "other" to comment on descrimination in the larger context of society. SF being used for social commentary is old hat, but SF used to better and more deeply investigate/describe interpersonal relationships; that's new, and fascinating, at least to me.

{Farscape did this too, in a way. It took the sloperatic excesses of pulp space adventure and put it in the service of a love story. In essence, the Crais/Scorpious/Scarran plot arcs were foils for the John and Aeryn stuff, their emotional turmoil underscored by vengeful Space Commanders w/big nasty spaceships, fetish bogeymen seeking Ultimate Weapons, and a galaxy generally going to hell in a handbasket}.

And don't get me started on the whole Major Kira/surrogate mother storyline. Let's just say there's no way it should have worked, and it did...

Ah well, to each his own. I think DS9 it did some pretty radical things, not just to the franchise --which I couldn't care less about-- but to SF in general. And sometimes in fairly subtle ways. Maybe you'll watch the rest of DS9 sometime and find something of value in it. I know I'll enjoy watching the entirety of B5, once I stop procrastinating and buy the DVD's.

[Hmmm, apparently I needed more work today....]
 
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My list, in no particular order:

For the writing: Babylon 5

For willingness to do anything to anyone: Farscape

For managing to believably put Space Opera in a modern-day setting: Stargate: SG-1

For combining SF and Westerns in fabulous and funny ways, if only they'd been on longer: Brisco County, Jr. and Firefly

Wish I could have seen 'em before they left: Alien Nation and Space:Above and Beyond, both of which had some neat eps in the SciFi reruns I've seen.
 
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WizarDru said:
Alien Nation - Odd that I haven't seen anyone toss out the mad propz to this highly underrated series. At first just appearing to be a poor follow-on to a cheap sf gimmick movie, it turned out to be an extremely well written show about the integration of an alien species with mankind, and the cultural conflicts that came with them. [/B]

"Alien Nation" a cheap sf gimmick movie? :confused:

I suggest you go watch it again. It's an excellent movie. Sure, the ending was a little preachy, but still, all in all it was excellent.

I never got to see enough episodes of the series to pass judgement -- I can count on one hand the episodes I saw, and still have digits left over. But what I saw was very good.
 


Shadowdancer said:


"Alien Nation" a cheap sf gimmick movie? :confused:

I suggest you go watch it again. It's an excellent movie. Sure, the ending was a little preachy, but still, all in all it was excellent.

It was a cheap gimmick sf movie - one that worked far, far better than it had any right to, thanks to the very real chemistry between James Caan and Mandy Patinkin.

Which is also the reason I didn't take a shine to the TV show.
 

'low budget' BBC sf

BBC sf of the 70s & 80s actually had budgets comparable to US sf (pre Star Trek Next Generation), however the BBC is notably inefficient at spending its (license-payers') money, hence the cheap & shoddy look, despite usually excellent (for sf) acting, & often excellent plots.. Red Dwarf seasons 3+ were broadcast on BBC but independently made; despite *tiny* budgets compared to BBC in house sf it actually looked a lot better.
Nowadays the BBC doesn't make sf, but is still pretty inefficient I believe. :)
 

I feel like expanding on my list a little.

B5 is still best Sci Fi show IMHO. I liked the 5 year story arc. Sure it had its flaws but which show didn't. My favorite episode was the end of season 4, when they thought they wouldn't get a season 5.

Firefly- Had this show stayed on the air longer I think it would be on the top of my list. I hope there is a layer of hell reserved for the people who cancelled this show.

Stargate SG1- I really like this show as well. I like the way the casts interacts with each other.

ST: TNG- Since I never really watched the orginal series till after this came out I thought this was coolest thing since sliced bread.

Now for Farscape

How to put this gently, I really didn't like Farscape. I liked the first 2 seasons but it was getting hookey pretty fast. Maybe it was the erratic scheduling cause it felt like I always missed an episode everytime I watched it.
 

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