Best Spell to Maximize

[Jeremy]

Yup. You can do double empowered bull's strengths too. Or triple empowered..

But unfortunately while you can do an empowered maximized fireball, it doesn't work the way logic says it would. It has been ruled by the Sage that metamagic feats always affect the base spell, even multiple applications of feats or even the same feat.

So a maximized empowered fireball has to be rolled. You then take half the roll (the empower) and add it to 60 (the maximize) for the total. Which of course won't add up to 90. Why he felt a 8th level spell doing 90 points of damage was unbalancing, I don't know. Especially when the saving throw for it is based off a 3rd level spells and even a minor globe of invulnerability can stop it.

 

[Thanee]

At 20th level a 3x Empowered Flame Arrow can deal a lot of damage against a single target, too! 20d6 x 2.5 = 175 on average (reflex half)!

Bye
Thanee

 

[Dr. Zoom]

Originally posted by Morose:
It depends on your target (ie race/class/subtype), but overall I'd have to say Poison. That much con drain is just obscene. Not only that, but if the initial damage succeeds then you're nicely set up to insure the final damage takes effect a minute later and there aren't a lot of things that can shrug off 20 points of con damage.

I am not sure what you mean here. If the victim fails the initial saving throw, he still gets another for the secondary effect one minute later. If the victim makes the initial saving throw, he still must make another a minute later, or suffer the secondary effect. Nothing ensures poison damage here. Save or suffer the effects.

 

[Belares]

So if what you say is true..then a empowered, maximized bull's strength would be: max=5, then 2-5 more added to it? Than what I thought that it would be: max=5 then empowered 1.5x5 = 7.5(which i think you always round down) so 7.

That would be better except in the fireball case.

As far as empowered 2x-3x bull's strength you roll first say a 3 (total of 4 then 1.5x4, then roll again say a 2 (total 3)which now is 1.5x3 for a combined total of 10?

Please explain if calculations are inaccurate

 

[Jeremy]

I am not sure what you mean here. If the victim fails the initial saving throw, he still gets another for the secondary effect one minute later. If the victim makes the initial saving throw, he still must make another a minute later, or suffer the secondary effect. Nothing ensures poison damage here. Save or suffer the effects.

Because if you fail the first save, you take Con damage which affects your Fortitude saves making the second save even harder to make.

 

[Jeremy]

So if what you say is true..then a empowered, maximized bull's strength would be: max=5, then 2-5 more added to it? Than what I thought that it would be: max=5 then empowered 1.5x5 = 7.5(which i think you always round down) so 7.

That would be better except in the fireball case.

As far as empowered 2x-3x bull's strength you roll first say a 3 (total of 4 then 1.5x4, then roll again say a 2 (total 3)which now is 1.5x3 for a combined total of 10?

Please explain if calculations are inaccurate

Nope. An empowered maximized bull's strength would be: 5 (maximized) + 1 to 2 (empower). Because if you roll 1 or 2 +1, then the half you add to the max is only 1. If you roll 3 or 4 +1, then the half you add is 2. So an empowered maximized bull's strength yields 6-7 strength.

A double empowered bull's strength would with a roll of 3 or 4 get you 8 strength. A triple empowered bull's strength would indeed get you 10 points of strength on a 3 or 4.

 

[Dr. Zoom]

So if what you say is true..then a empowered, maximized bull's strength would be: max=5, then 2-5 more added to it? Than what I thought that it would be: max=5 then empowered 1.5x5 = 7.5(which i think you always round down) so 7.

That would be better except in the fireball case.

As far as empowered 2x-3x bull's strength you roll first say a 3 (total of 4 then 1.5x4, then roll again say a 2 (total 3)which now is 1.5x3 for a combined total of 10?

Please explain if calculations are inaccurate

You apply each feat to the base spell.

An empowered maximized bull's strength goes like this. The base spell is 1d4+1. The maximized part gives you 5. The empowered part requires you to roll in order to get the additional 1/2 again as much because it does not piggy back off the maximized total. So you roll the 1d4+1. If you roll a 3 and get 4, you divide this by 2 for a total of 2. Add this to the max of 5 for a total empowered, maximized bull's stength of 7.

A triple empowered bull's strength goes like this. The base is 1d4+1. You roll this and add 1/2 the result to it 3 times. For example, if you rolled a 3 and add the 1 for 4, your empowered spell feat adds 2 more (4/2=2), and the other 2 empowered spell feats add 2 each. So it would look like this: 4 (original roll) + 2 + 2 + 2 = 10.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

I voted MM.

I do not find 60 HPs of Reflex dependent damage very attractive as a 6th level spell.

Poison gets points for style I must say. But you can't say it is better than Harm, even a "house ruled" version.

 

[Dreaddisease]

Maximized MM is 25 not 20. (1d4+1)*5)maximized = 25 in my calculations. I can check my calculator again cuz it may have messed up.

I would not go for any maximization. Empower is better in my opinion. So I vote... Harm cuz that would be stupid to maximize. Or Poison. Poison wouldn't be bad at all.

 

[Corwin]

You apply each feat to the base spell.

An empowered maximized bull's strength goes like this. The base spell is 1d4+1. The maximized part gives you 5. The empowered part requires you to roll in order to get the additional 1/2 again as much because it does not piggy back off the maximized total. So you roll the 1d4+1. If you roll a 3 and get 4, you divide this by 2 for a total of 2. Add this to the max of 5 for a total empowered, maximized bull's stength of 7.

A triple empowered bull's strength goes like this. The base is 1d4+1. You roll this and add 1/2 the result to it 3 times. For example, if you rolled a 3 and add the 1 for 4, your empowered spell feat adds 2 more (4/2=2), and the other 2 empowered spell feats add 2 each. So it would look like this: 4 (original roll) + 2 + 2 + 2 = 10.

BTW, quick comment:

It was recently "officially" suggested (I think the Sage?) that you combine all the empower increases together before applying them to the base to avoid hidden losses when rounding down.

So if you triple empower bull's strength and roll a '4' (giving you a base of +5), you then multiply that by x2.5 (100%+50%+50%+50%) for a grand total of +12.5 (rounded down once to +12). As opposed to having a +11 (+5 base +2.5 rounded down three separate times to +2 each).